Mooney Bravo 1998 shadin fuel flow anomaly- fuel to destination

[pkofman]

So i have a mooney bravo 1998 version, It has a  shadin miniflo . It has this weird little anomaly in  that when you select the fuel to destination it will display the fuel required to the next intermediate waypoint instead of the destination. I called shadin and they confirmed there was a version deployed in the early 2000's  that when working with  a garmin 530w provided data to the intermediate waypoint not the destination. So it is operating correctly.It was only like this on one software version and luck me that is what i have in the plane.. Like everything else in life they can fix it with money and 2 weeks.   I wonder , is it worth it ? Has anyone here ever fixed or seen this issue and what other options would you consider at this point. its not supercritical as i have my ipad etc etc. but just curious.  

Peter

[FoxMike]

You might be able to find a used Miniflo with the correct software.

[kortopates]

I personally wouldn't try to upgrade Minflo. Don't you have a modern engine analyzer that is capable of integrating your FF? That is the real answer. Your Shadin FF transducer can be wired in parallel to a analyzer like the JPI EDM 830 or the 900 series. When the analyzer is integrated with your GPS both the GPS and JPI will be able to able to give you fuel remaining at Destination. I forget if the GNS530W will also give you range rings as well but the newer GTN and G500 MFD maps do give you range rings.You'll get much more value moving towards a modern engine analyzer if you don't have one already and if you already have one, its very easy to get your FF wired into it.

[pkofman]

9 minutes ago, kortopates said:

I personally wouldn't try to upgrade Minflo. Don't you have a modern engine analyzer that is capable of integrating your FF? That is the real answer. Your Shadin FF transducer can be wired in parallel to a analyzer like the JPI EDM 830 or the 900 series. When the analyzer is integrated with your GPS both the GPS and JPI will be able to able to give you fuel remaining at Destination. I forget if the GNS530W will also give you range rings as well but the newer GTN and G500 MFD maps do give you range rings.You'll get much more value moving towards a modern engine analyzer if you don't have one already and if you already have one, its very easy to get your FF wired into it.

Ok well as with everythihng in the Mooney its a bit tight and complex. I have a 530 w  and edm 700

I tried to upgrade the 700 to a better graphics model. but i only have a 2.25 inch hole and super tight so i cant go to a nice updated square jp display

pics below

I think it is probably worthless to upgrade the miniflo. it will be $$$

but i started this to find out if there were any other thoughts..

Its sort of a goofy problem and not a deal breaker but was curious. 

Peter

[jaylw314]

9 minutes ago, kortopates said:

I personally wouldn't try to upgrade Minflo. Don't you have a modern engine analyzer that is capable of integrating your FF? That is the real answer. Your Shadin FF transducer can be wired in parallel to a analyzer like the JPI EDM 830 or the 900 series. When the analyzer is integrated with your GPS both the GPS and JPI will be able to able to give you fuel remaining at Destination. I forget if the GNS530W will also give you range rings as well but the newer GTN and G500 MFD maps do give you range rings.You'll get much more value moving towards a modern engine analyzer if you don't have one already and if you already have one, its very easy to get your FF wired into it.

The 530W does not do range rings 

I have a Shadin that was originally installed with an EI fuel flow instrument (FP-5L).  You can hook it up to the 530W and any JPI engine monitor as options--neither requires any STC or special paperwork.  The 530W, FP-5L and engine monitor all share fuel flow and GPS data, so I can look up any data that requires both, like nm/gal or fuel to destination on any of those instruments.

Realistically, the engine monitor is the best place to display that data, since the 530W display is already so cluttered, and the last thing you want to do is deal with knobology on it to show your fuel data, but it's there to look at too if you go to the fuel management page.

My only complaint is that the signal from the Shadin to the engine monitor is kind of noisy, which makes it hard to make fine adjustments to mixture.

@pkofman, could you not ask your mechanic to move those switches above the EDM-700?  That would give you room to install a 730, which would simply plug into the old harness.  It literally takes 5 minutes to install the instrument itself.

[pkofman]

1 minute ago, jaylw314 said:

The 530W does not do range rings 

I have a Shadin that was originally installed with an EI fuel flow instrument (FP-5L).  You can hook it up to the 530W and any JPI engine monitor as options--neither requires any STC or special paperwork.  The 530W, FP-5L and engine monitor all share fuel flow and GPS data, so I can look up any data that requires both, like nm/gal or fuel to destination on any of those instruments.

Realistically, the engine monitor is the best place to display that data, since the 530W display is already so cluttered, and the last thing you want to do is deal with knobology on it to show your fuel data, but it's there to look at too if you go to the fuel management page.

My only complaint is that the signal from the Shadin to the engine monitor is kind of noisy, which makes it hard to make fine adjustments to mixture.

@pkofman, could you not ask your mechanic to move those switches above the EDM-700?  That would give you room to install a 730, which would simply plug into the old harness.  It literally takes 5 minutes to install the instrument itself.

perhaps a simple and good suggestion.... btw i love your term @jaylw314 "knobology" is my new word of the day and could not be more true as it relates to the 530w

[PT20J]

Compare cost of upgrading Shadin with adding FF to EDM 700 which can be done for less than $1000 (but there will be additional costs to add a panel switch and connect to the FF transducer and the GPS).

On a tight panel, I wouldn’t go to a full engine monitor unless it was certified primary so I could ditch the OEM manifold pressure and tach.

Skip

[carusoam]

This same question arose the other day... with somebody else’s set-up...

Fuel required to get to the next waypoint has always been a goofy near useless piece of data... compared to what we really want fuel to the end of the trip including any IAP we want to add along the way...

It does require three devices to report the useful, fuel required to get to the destination...

• FF device, to measure the FF being used...
• GPS to report distance to the waypoint or the total trip...
• Engine monitor, to hold the data and do the calculations...

Required wiring... a wire here, to a wire there, and the third wire to the next box...

The challenge people were coming up with, was that the GPS was reporting the next waypoint instead of the total distance to the end...

That was probably a software version problem of what data point to send down that one wire...

 

Simple question that requires detailed knowledge of all FF, GPS, engine monitor devices used in the system...

This technology has been available since the early 90s,  according to the manuals for my plane... JPI 700, KLN94, FT101.... But, mine were never connected... so I don’t know if it is really capable...

Probably makes a lot of sense to hire a good instrument tech to answer the question specifically for your plane...  where’s Terry? He did the early installs and trouble shooting for @Marauder’s Cies system....

it would help to have that detailed knowledge down to the individual wires and GTN program version knowledge to know what data is being sent down the wire...

PP thoughts only, not an instrument tech guy...

Best regards,

-a-

[alextstone]

Ok well as with everythihng in the Mooney its a bit tight and complex. I have a 530 w  and edm 700
I tried to upgrade the 700 to a better graphics model. but i only have a 2.25 inch hole and super tight so i cant go to a nice updated square jp display
pics below
I think it is probably worthless to upgrade the miniflo. it will be $$$
but i started this to find out if there were any other thoughts..
Its sort of a goofy problem and not a deal breaker but was curious. 
Peter

Hi Peter,

I have a very similar panel. I recently added the JPI 830 by remover the VSI (this is displayed on the Aspen already) and I moved the altimeter down... See photo:

BTW, as an aside, the Manifold pressure is not displayed on the JPI 830 because the sensor was bad out of the box...

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