Questions about buying a one quarter share of a '63 M20C

[BrianNC]

I have the opportunity to buy into a quarter ownership of a '63 M20C, and wanted to run it by you guys to see what you thought about this Mooney. Never been a plane owner. I have a little over 300 hours (over a 40 year period, having flown about 80-90 of that in the past year or so, commercial certificate, instrument rated, and 63 years old for whatever that's worth. I currently belong to a flying club that charges $75 an hour wet for a well-equipped 180HP C172, with a $70 a month fee. Buy-in was $400. Probably about 30-40 members in the club. I'm a weekday flyer mostly so the plane is pretty available if I want it, but a little harder actually using it for a several day trips unless you book out at least 3 weeks in advance, but there is a 2 hour minimum per day. I'm including that info as a contrast to what the Mooney would be costing me and availability. 

First about the '63 M20C. It has a nose cowl mod that  looks more like a J Mooney. "The aircraft was re-manufactured at the Mooney factory in Texas in 2003. The engine, prop, panel, fuel tanks, and the interior were all re-done. The exterior was also repainted as well as the inside of the fuselage. It has all the gap seals and all J model mods." Panel is modern with modern layout and modern yokes. Looks really good. 

TT: 4800 or so

TBO: 2699+. This was about a year ago. Owner said the has a $15k line of credit for emergencies and if a new engine is needed, the difference between that $15k and what the engine cost would be split among the other 3 owners. Sounds like he knows the engine with need an overhaul sooner rather than later and willing to cover 15k of it because of that. Of course all these details would be discussed thoroughly and understood before buying in. 

Avionics
Garmin 430 non-waas
King 155 nav/com
King HSI

King glide slope indicator
King transponder
Stec-50 autopilot (3 axis and approach mode)
ADS-B compliant
Engine
TT:2699, oil changes every 50 hours and oil analysis. All Compression 73 or better last annual.
No ADs.
 

Prop
TT:2699, has a slight grease leak on one blade

No ADs
Last annual
Fresh tires on all gear.
Prop governor was overhauled.
AD for gear rigging was performed. Gear rigging was intolerance.
New cable for the cowl flaps due to old cable fraying.

Squawks
One of the prop blades has a grease leak around the hub.
Altitude hold on the autopilot will not work below degrees 40F.

That was a little over a year ago when I first began talking to the seller. Current annual and maintenance done:

"There were three major items that were discovered and all
corrected. Item one was engine mounts sagging. Replaced those. Item 2 corrosion inside the roll cage. It was about a quarter inch of corrosion. Repaired that and no further corrosion was found. The major item was a crack between the spar and flap assembly. We think someone stepped on the flap and damaged it. That was a very costly fix. Other items they replaced were,
Fuel caps assemblies 
Gear lock mechanism

But since then we have a failed servo for the GPS function on the autopilot (asked about this and said the heading and altitude still work, but the nav function doesn't). Heading, approach, and altitude mode still work. Also had the main fuel pump fail. We replaced it with a remanufactured one. 
Still running strong on the same engine. No issues other than the fuel pump.

Said the plane is flown a few times a month. Can take it on trips as long as I want, which is the main reason I would want it. I have a couple of 10 day or so trips I'd like to do a year, and trips of 2-4 days from time to time. And time building. I'd like to get a 135 job or something similar. Just a dream right now. It may or may not pan out. 

Buy in $7.5k. $135 a month, and haven't reverified this, but $35 an hour. 

The seller may even be a member here. No ill will here. This is an important decision for me. Don't have the funds to own a plane by myself, so a partnership is the way to go for me. Just getting the advice of people more experienced than I am. My main concern is the engine. 

So first, how does the plane sound? And second, the buy-in seem reasonable, and how does this compare to the way I am renting now? I know nothing about buying a plane in case you were wondering, which you probably can tell already.

Edited April 26, 2019 by BrianNC

[carusoam]

What’s the worst thing that could happen?

my hangar cost is >6amu per year...

pretty close to the cost of owning 1/4 of a Mooney...

The important thing is to get to know the people using the plane...

getting into a joint ownership is a lot easier than getting back out of one...

If you only use it a year, and walk away from the group because you need to.... how financially disruptive is it to you?

Read the logs as if you are doing a PPI...  Get a feel for the level of maintenance these guys are used to...

Do you fit in their mold?

Sounds pretty good to me...

Expect it to be great practice for the road to sole ownership... 

If it works out really well, how long before you are in search of your own plane?

Read all of the documents carefully... what happens if three owners decide they want to do something different...?

Expect things to change more frequently than you want them to...

Most of my flying included every weekend... and only a few work trips in the middle...

PP thoughts only, sole ownership and renting experience only...

Best regards,

-a-

[BrianNC]

I was thinking some of that myself. It's not a huge buy-in. And like you said, sounds pretty good. And it's a nice 'modern' M20C. The post is mainly to see if there were any serious caveats from anyone. And of course the positive which you pointed out. 

Thanks for the thoughts.

[carusoam]

See if you can go flying with one or two of the owners...

Most Mooney Pilots I have run into are an interesting bunch... conversations can go on longer than expected...

They don’t usually accidentally fall into ownership of a Mooney.  It is something researched and thought about for a long time...

Best regards,

-a-

[BrianNC]

38 minutes ago, carusoam said:

See if you can go flying with one or two of the owners...

Most Mooney Pilots I have run into are an interesting bunch... conversations can go on longer than expected...

They don’t usually accidentally fall into ownership of a Mooney.  It is something researched and thought about for a long time...

Best regards,

-a-

As a matter of fact one of the owners is a CFI and would be giving me the checkout in the plane. So flying with an owner is a done deal.

The main owner is a pretty new regional pilot for Southwest. Flew it 150 hours the first year he had it. Then he went to sky mapping to build hours to go to a regional. So he personally doesn't fly it much now. 

[David Lloyd]

Engine and prop are 2700 SMOH. A lot of O-360 make it that long but not much longer.   Prop is showing signs of that age now.  It is time to shop for repairs.  Are you and the other owners prepared to fork up that money next week?  If yes, sounds good.  If no, move on.

Oh, any partnership is like getting married.  Some work great, others not so.  This would be like having 3 spouses.  If a decision is to be made, how does that work?

Edited April 26, 2019 by David Lloyd

[1964-M20E]

Sounds like a good deal if it is close and depending on how much the others fly it for weekend trips.

$7.5k buy in and $135 a month is cheaper than going it alone.   Just be ready to contribute up to another $7.5k for the engine overhaul.

If you can walk away from the $7.5k without any serious hardship I'd go for it.

Finally I'd push for them to upgrade to the Avidyne IFD440 and get rid of the Garmin you will all like it better especially using an Ipad and the IFD100 software and divided 4 ways it is not a huge hit for each owner.  Also don't forget you get to sell the Garmin 430 after as well.

[GDGR]

7 hours ago, BrianNC said:

I currently belong to a flying club that charges $75 an hour wet for a well-equipped 180HP C172, with a $70 a month fee. Buy-in was $400. 

Buy in $7.5k. $135 a month, and haven't reverified this, but $35 an hour.

Annual costs: based on 100 hours

cessna $8340 w/ buy in $8740

M20C. $5120 w/ buy in $12,620

-if you’re able to offset costs with a part time flying gig

-if additional flexibility is worth $4k off the hop, that you’ll hypothetically be in the black after 1.25 years compared to renting the C182

-if you’re willing to turn the key tomorrow and be on the hook for a portion of the engine you’ve never used

Personal opinion is negotiate the engine OH on time you fly the plane, or pro rate based on ownership time/hours. Not fair to fork out 7500 for a 1/4 share, and find out you’re a partner in a paperweight the following week. What guarantee do you have if the engine does go down in a relatively short time? 

If it’s freedom you’re looking for, and you’ll be performing the majority of the flying in the group, this could be a steal.

good luck

 

[steingar]

Sounds like a really great deal.  Heck, if the OP doesn't do this  I might.  Parsimonious way to get into a well equipped Mooney.

[GDGR]

Another thought.... as I try and drag my butt out of bed:

What is the anticipated buy in, once a prop overhaul and new engine is installed?

just got thinking my AME has a partnership in a POS Cherokee. Installing new engine and paint and is asking 6x what the buy in was last year for a 1/5 share. 

[Yetti]

Why would you put up 7.5K to then spend more money on something that is not available to fly for a bunch of months?

[NJMac]

I love having my own plane but with my 1 or 2 times a week usage it seems dumb to own it alone. I'd love 1 or 2 more partners. Not sure if I'd want 3 more?

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[RobertGary1]

The one thing I miss about having partners is having someone to fly with and trade IPC's with or at least hood time.

 

-Robert

[TCC]

I look at partnerships as a business transaction.

How is the partnership structured? What (if any) financial information is available for review? Aside from the buy-in, what are the recurring costs and how are they handled? What‘s the value of the assets, and what are the liabilities?

What entity is the plane titled to, and who owns that entity? How are the 3 Ds (death, dissolution, divorce) handled?

Due diligence on all the assets and partners should be performed.