G3X Touch Certified

[rahill]

21 minutes ago, Stryker said:

And Dynon.   If Garmin has 500 aircraft (models?  Anyone find the list?) already approved for the STC and Dynon is still stuck with a few 172s, Dynon is toast as well.

http://static.garmin.com/pumac/sa01899wi_aml.pdf

[m20kmooney]

Here's a good book for you guys, 

Edited March 25, 2019 by m20kmooney

[mike_elliott]

3 hours ago, Marauder said:

Anyone care to join me? I heard it goes well with melted butter.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Ill save my serving for when the KI300 can drive the K(r)AP 150...

[ArtVandelay]

http://static.garmin.com/pumac/sa01899wi_aml.pdf

Interesting, it excludes aircraft with G1000 (note #2).


Tom

[Niko182]

1 minute ago, ArtVandelay said:

Interesting, it excludes aircraft with G1000 (note #2).


Tom

thats not surprising. G1000 is part of the M20TN and all other G1000 models, so it can't be taken out.

[Bryan]

Here is the AML for the G3X Touch (certified):

http://static.garmin.com/pumac/sa01899wi_aml.pdf

Or, otherwise... just about all the non-G1000 aircraft:

M20, M20A, M20B, M20C, M20D, M20E, M20F, M20G, M20J, M20K, M20L, M20M, M20R, M20S

[Yetti]

Experimental price list

https://www8.garmin.com/aviation/pdfs/experimental_pricing.pdf

 

[Yetti]

If their prices stay the same for certified then it looks like they are about the same as Dynon.   The difference being the install cost.

[Marauder]

30 minutes ago, Yetti said:

Experimental price list

https://www8.garmin.com/aviation/pdfs/experimental_pricing.pdf

 

So, to jetdriven's point, why is the certified version 3X more expensive than the experimental? If they had to certify over 500 models through flight testing and all the associated paperwork (like they did to certify the G500 AP in aircraft), I could get the extra cost. Unless there was a major certification process, why are the certified version that much more expensive?

[LANCECASPER]

26 minutes ago, Marauder said:

So, to jetdriven's point, why is the certified version 3X more expensive than the experimental? If they had to certify over 500 models through flight testing and all the associated paperwork (like they did to certify the G500 AP in aircraft), I could get the extra cost. Unless there was a major certification process, why are the certified version that much more expensive?

Because they can.

[rbridges]

My second Aspen panel is literally being installed as I type this.  Not that it matters, but I like the garmin just on aesthetics alone.  The 10" display looks nice in lieu of the divided panels of the aspen units.  

I have an STEC 50, Garmin 430.  Is there any advantage having the aspen units (PFD and MFD 1000), or am I going to kick myself for not having waited and installed the garmin?

[MIm20c]

1 hour ago, Marauder said:

So, to jetdriven's point, why is the certified version 3X more expensive than the experimental? ....  Unless there was a major certification process, why are the certified version that much more expensive?

The certified kit includes the LRU kit so the comparative price is $5400. The real question is if the certified price listed on the website is a dealer list price or a normal selling price. If it’s dealer list there might be another 15% wiggle room on the $10k.  Keep in mind Dynon adds $4k or more to the experimental prices to cover the certification. 

Edit-the items in green are included w/ the certified kit. 

Edited March 26, 2019 by MIm20c

[gsxrpilot]

8 minutes ago, rbridges said:

My second Aspen panel is literally being installed as I type this.  Not that it matters, but I like the garmin just on aesthetics alone.  The 10" display looks nice in lieu of the divided panels of the aspen units.  

I have an STEC 50, Garmin 430.  Is there any advantage having the aspen units (PFD and MFD 1000), or am I going to kick myself for not having waited and installed the garmin?

I'm right behind you... second Aspen will be installed later this year.

The G3X certainly makes me pause and think. But here are a few of my thoughts on it.

• I don't like the 10" screen. There's just too much wasted real estate outside the AI on the screen. I also like the reversion capability of the MFD converting to a PFD if required. So I'd probably be installing dual 7" screens instead of a single 10". 
• I don't like the requirement for the G5 backup. I'm trying to get clarification if the G5 is required when two 7" screens are installed. I like that the Aspen MAX PFD/MFD combo removes the requirement for the backup AI.
• To get the full feature set of the G3X, I think one would have to also install the GFC500 autopilot. Which might not be a bad thing, but the install alone for that autopilot is running $14K in cases that we've heard about. 
• Otherwise, I like everything about the G3X... 

Down the road if I have to replace my KFC150... and the KFC230 is still vaporware, the GFC500 and G3X's become a real option.

Just my $0.02

[Yetti]

16 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

I'm right behind you... second Aspen will be installed later this year.

The G3X certainly makes me pause and think. But here are a few of my thoughts on it.

• I don't like the 10" screen. There's just too much wasted real estate outside the AI on the screen. I also like the reversion capability of the MFD converting to a PFD if required. So I'd probably be installing dual 7" screens instead of a single 10". 
• I don't like the requirement for the G5 backup. I'm trying to get clarification if the G5 is required when two 7" screens are installed. I like that the Aspen MAX PFD/MFD combo removes the requirement for the backup AI.
• To get the full feature set of the G3X, I think one would have to also install the GFC500 autopilot. Which might not be a bad thing, but the install alone for that autopilot is running $14K in cases that we've heard about. 
• Otherwise, I like everything about the G3X... 

Down the road if I have to replace my KFC150... and the KFC230 is still vaporware, the GFC500 and G3X's become a real option.

Just my $0.02

10 inch screen planning on a F panel

[Bob - S50]

I'll add another $.02.

Our dual G5's are waiting at the shop for our April 22 installation.  When I saw the G3X was certified I thought about seeing if we could change our order to the G3X and one G5 as a backup... until I thought about it a bit more.

The G3X is nice but I don't think it's worth the extra cost for us.  It may be for others.  We are all different.  The 7" screen with a G5 backup is about $10,000 +/-.  Dual G5's are about $5,000 +/-.  That's an extra $5000 in parts.  If I want the 10.6" display that's another $2000.  And even at that, that's cheaper than dual 7" G3X displays with no G5.  What do I get for that money that I don't get with dual G5's?

1.  I get rid of a few mechanical gauges (altimeter, airspeed, VSI, TC) that are all pretty reliable and cheap to maintain.

2.  Synthetic vision which I consider somewhat a gimmick.

3.  TAS indication.  Nice, but I can live without it.

4.  Winds.  Again, nice, but I can live without it.

5.  Highway in the sky.  Once again, nice but I can live without it.

6.  The ability to control a few other avionics through the G3X.  My airplane isn't that large.  I can reach everything from the left seat.

What's the advantage of the dual G5's?

1.  I have 3 attitude sources; dual G5's and a TC (or 3rd AI if I replace the TC)

2.  If the AV20-S pans out, I can get a 4th attitude source, TAS, density altitude, and more goodies for under $1000.

[MIm20c]

46 minutes ago, rbridges said:

My second Aspen panel is literally being installed as I type this.  Not that it matters, but I like the garmin just on aesthetics alone.  The 10" display looks nice in lieu of the divided panels of the aspen units.  

I have an STEC 50, Garmin 430.  Is there any advantage having the aspen units (PFD and MFD 1000), or am I going to kick myself for not having waited and installed the garmin?

I’m in the exact same situation as you. I have a 430w, stec 50, and an Aspen screen. I truly feel when the 3100 comes out along with the pfd software update it will be an amazing combo. IMO three things need to happen for Aspen to remain competitive. First they need an inexpensive adsb in box that displays on their screens and portable units ($700 or less).  Second they need to include for free or very reasonable unlocks for all options (3-500 each). Lastly they need to price the max system right right in between dual g5’s and the 10 inch g3x. 

[Bryan]

59 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

I'm right behind you... second Aspen will be installed later this year.

The G3X certainly makes me pause and think. But here are a few of my thoughts on it.

• I don't like the 10" screen. There's just too much wasted real estate outside the AI on the screen. I also like the reversion capability of the MFD converting to a PFD if required. So I'd probably be installing dual 7" screens instead of a single 10". 
• I don't like the requirement for the G5 backup. I'm trying to get clarification if the G5 is required when two 7" screens are installed. I like that the Aspen MAX PFD/MFD combo removes the requirement for the backup AI.
• To get the full feature set of the G3X, I think one would have to also install the GFC500 autopilot. Which might not be a bad thing, but the install alone for that autopilot is running $14K in cases that we've heard about. 
• Otherwise, I like everything about the G3X... 

Down the road if I have to replace my KFC150... and the KFC230 is still vaporware, the GFC500 and G3X's become a real option.

Just my $0.02

Confirmed some of my questions, direct from Garmin on the Webinar:

• The G3X cannot interface with the GAD43e to drive legacy autopilots - basically same as a G5 today.  Can provide GPSS supoort but must keep a ATI source for autopilot.  It appears it will never be able to do this - "no ATT output for third party autopilots"
   
• "Dual 7" screens will still require a G5 for the GFC500"  according to Garmin.
   
• The G3X EIS does show the %HP which the TXi did not.

 

So depending on the cost to install a GFC500, it might be hard for me to rip out a perfectly good KFC 150 (today).  It seems the G3X is perfect if you have the GFC500 but not great if you have any other autopilot.  The install cost of the GFC will dicate if I install the G3X.

[Marauder]

41 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

I’m in the exact same situation as you. I have a 430w, stec 50, and an Aspen screen. I truly feel when the 3100 comes out along with the pfd software update it will be an amazing combo. IMO three things need to happen for Aspen to remain competitive. First they need an inexpensive adsb in box that displays on their screens and portable units ($700 or less).  Second they need to include for free or very reasonable unlocks for all options (3-500 each). Lastly they need to price the max system right right in between dual g5’s and the 10 inch g3x. 

The way I look at this situation, unless there is a compelling reason to yank the Aspens (i.e. them going out of business), moving over to a TXi for a few additional integration capabilities just doesn't make sense for me with an STEC 60-2 in the panel. The upgrade to the STEC 3100 is supposed to be a significant upgrade from the STEC's rate based approach. I am talking with 310 Pilot on YouTube about his 3100 installation. He is due to get it back next week and promised a full PIREP on it. I think once the STEC 3100 is integrated into the Aspens, there will be a lot of uptick potential for Aspen as there are a ton of STEC equipped planes that could make the jump to an integrated 3100/Aspen solution. Pulling the STEC 60-2 to install a GFC 500 that won't talk to my Aspen doesn't make any sense.

When you get to the basics, how much is enough in these planes? I was perfectly happy flying steam for years because I didn't know any better. When the first portable GPS came out in 1991, I was in Shangri La. If none of this glass stuff was available today for our class airplane and only iPad apps were, I would still be in Nirvana. 

[Marauder]

7 minutes ago, Bryan said:

Confirmed some of my questions, direct from Garmin on the Webinar:

• The G3X cannot interface with the GAD43e to drive legacy autopilots - basically same as a G5 today.  Can provide GPSS supoort but must keep a ATI source for autopilot.  It appears it will never be able to do this - "no ATT output for third party autopilots"
   
• "Dual 7" screens will still require a G5 for the GFC500"  according to Garmin.
   
• The G3X EIS does show the %HP which the TXi did not.

 

So depending on the cost to install a GFC500, it might be hard for me to rip out a perfectly good KFC 150 (today).  It seems the G3X is perfect if you have the GFC500 but not great if you have any other autopilot.  The install cost of the GFC will dicate if I install the G3X.

Sure looks like they are putting the stick in the sand. Our autopilot or else...

[Oldguy]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

I'm right behind you... second Aspen will be installed later this year.

The G3X certainly makes me pause and think. But here are a few of my thoughts on it.

• I don't like the 10" screen. There's just too much wasted real estate outside the AI on the screen. I also like the reversion capability of the MFD converting to a PFD if required. So I'd probably be installing dual 7" screens instead of a single 10". 
• I don't like the requirement for the G5 backup. I'm trying to get clarification if the G5 is required when two 7" screens are installed. I like that the Aspen MAX PFD/MFD combo removes the requirement for the backup AI.
• To get the full feature set of the G3X, I think one would have to also install the GFC500 autopilot. Which might not be a bad thing, but the install alone for that autopilot is running $14K in cases that we've heard about. 
• Otherwise, I like everything about the G3X... 

Down the road if I have to replace my KFC150... and the KFC230 is still vaporware, the GFC500 and G3X's become a real option.

Just my $0.02

I was tracking right with you until the presenter on the webinar speaker said non-Garmin GPS navigators are NOT supported.

Not sure I want to go with a GTN 750 versus the IFD 540.

[gsxrpilot]

As I'm sitting in on the Garmin webinar now... a few notes that are positives for Aspen/Avidyne.

The G3X is not certified for IFR flight without backup instruments. Of course, this can be the G5, but even with two screens, a backup is still required.

• A pair of Aspen MAX screens are fully certified without the need for backup gauges.

The G3X will work nice with the GFC500... but without support for the GAD43e... it will not fully support any other autopilots.

• The Aspens support all legacy autopilots including both BK, Stec, Brittain, etc...

The G3X will only support Garmin navigators such as GTN 750/650, Garmin radios, Garmin Transponders, and even Garmin audio panels.

• Aspen will support all of the same Garmin stuff as well as PSEngineering, Avidyne, etc.

A 100% Garmin panel will be a thing of beauty. But you'll be locked into the ecosystem. It's a great ecosystem, but you're locked in. 

For now, I'm not ripping out the Aspen/Avidyne/PSE.

[M20kflyer99]

My biggest issue, from the 20 questions I asked, was the lack of database concierge on the g3x.   I've gotten spoiled with the GTN.

 

My list...

Q: Reason for such a price delta between certified and non-certified g3x?

A: Hi, we will cover that in the presentation

Q: I purchased a gtx345, any chance for trade in deal on a gnx375?

A: Hi, unfortunately, we are not planning any GTX trade-in at this time.

Q: G3X full legacy autopilot (attitude) support for King and Century autopilots?

A:  The G3X, like the G5, does not have an output for attitude to 3rd party autopilots, sorry.

Q: G3X full legacy autopilot (attitude) support for King and Century autopilots?

A: We do interface with the KFC systems for heading and course datum, you will need to retain the existing BK gyro system

Audience Question

Q: Is the g3x useable for FIKI ?

A: It is not currently available for FIKI equipped aircraft, thank you for the question

Q: how will the onepak/pilotpak subscriptions work if you get a dual screen g3x?

A: Hi, you can get more information here: https://fly.garmin.com/fly-garmin/support/pricing

Q: Any plan to incorporate the gad43e interface with g3x?

A: We do not have any plans to incorporate the GAD 43e at this time.

Q: The G3X contains a VFR GPS antenna.  Does that mean it will function as an emergency backup with moving map if the GTN kicks the bucket mid flights?

A: Hi , you're correct!

Q: The G3X contains a VFR GPS antenna.  Does that mean it will function as an emergency backup with moving map if the GTN kicks the bucket mid flights?

A: The G3X will maintain its own VFR navigation on the screen. It does provide redundancy

Q: Will the g3x ADAHRS provide full data to GTN to obtain TAS on the GTN?

A: Yes, the G3X Touch provides air data information to the GTN via the GAD 29B.

Q: Will the g3x show dual nav sources like the aspen can?  I.e.  GTN and GNC ?

A:  Yes, the G3X Touch is approved for display of dual navigator interfaces like the GTN and GNC.

Q: So the g3x will NOT get database updates via a FS510 and GTN750 with database concierge?

A: This is correct.

Q: How are the database updates done on the g3x?  Need to remove the sd card?

A: They are easily done via the SD card on the front of the screen bezel

Q: You guys should develop a Bluetooth sd card updater integrated with Garmin Pilot.  Concierge is amazing with the GTN and I'm lazy.

No answer

Edited March 26, 2019 by M20kflyer99

[gsxrpilot]

Well the big question in advance of this announcement was why would Garmin release the G3X and step all over their TXi business. And now we know... the G3X, while a nice unit, is certainly the base model without all the niceties of the TXi.

[Oldguy]

2 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Well the big question in advance of this announcement was why would Garmin release the G3X and step all over their TXi business. And now we know... the G3X, while a nice unit, is certainly the base model without all the niceties of the TXi.

From a software comparison (my milieu), it's like the free app you can get with limited functionality, but once you pay for it, other functions are unlocked.

Seems to be exceptionally good marketing, and appears to commit you to the Garmin ecosystem.

[Bryan]

13 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Well the big question in advance of this announcement was why would Garmin release the G3X and step all over their TXi business. And now we know... the G3X, while a nice unit, is certainly the base model without all the niceties of the TXi.

biggest = connectivity.