Plane Cost Calculator

[40-0Flight]

3 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

First year ownership of my '70F I spent $18K, all in, for about 100 hours.

Could have been better (I had hoped for $12K, i.e. one AMU/month)...but, could have been much worse, too

I just learned what 1 AMU was.  Thank you!

 

[SkyTrekker]

FWIW, I found one of the many "cost of ownership" type spreadsheets out there about three years ago, when I started thinking about airplane ownership. Started mucking around with it and for my target flying scenario, came up with about $15K per year for expenses, including around 75 hours of flying per year.  The number includes hangar fees, insurance, fuel, annuals/inspections, and oil changes.  The number does not include any purchase costs.  This is for a 1970 M20E.

I'm about two years into it now, and that is right about what it is costing me, at roughly that number of flight hours per year. That figure does not include discretionary costs I've chosen to take on like an electric tug, new interior, Stratus, iPad mount, gopros, headsets, etc.  Worth noting that hangar fees are some of the most widely ranging base costs of airplane ownership, with a range of next to nothing to several hundred dollars per month.

 

[RLCarter]

43 minutes ago, Yetti said:

Just throw money at the problem till it goes away.

Goes away?  Yeah right........

[MikeOH]

SkyTrekker is right about the hangar costs; highly variable.

I'm in Southern California and pay $365/month; a decent percetage of my total.

[MikeOH]

Just now, RLCarter said:

Goes away?  Yeah right........

I'm pretty sure if you keep throwing money at the problem... the money will go away

[RLCarter]

38 minutes ago, StevenL757 said:

You can justify the hell out of it a hundred different ways, but it will never make financial sense.

My accountant taught me about the three "F"'s..... If it Flys, Floats or Fornicates it's better to rent it

[gsxrpilot]

I started with an M20C just to make sure I could afford this addiction. After a couple of years I had a good handle on the actual costs, I also discovered what my actual mission was. I learned how to properly fly a Mooney and how to take care of one. I made a fair number of mistakes and learned a lot.

Then with much more in sharper focus... I went and bought a 252. It's the perfect airplane for me, right now.

My approach to airplane ownership is to separate the costs between CapEx, the cost to buy the plane, and OpEx, the cost to own the plane. For me the CapEx is money that is just parked. I'll get it back when I sell, or under less fortunate circumstances, the insurance will pay it back to me. So what I have to budget for is OpEx. OpEx is just spent and isn't coming back. 

[40-0Flight]

19 minutes ago, RLCarter said:

My accountant taught me about the three "F"'s..... If it Flys, Floats or Fornicates it's better to rent it

If it has "Turbine Inlet Temperature", tires, or wires it is bound to give you trouble.. 

Edited February 28, 2019 by 40-0Flight
Adjustment for the easily offended

[MikeOH]

I have a theory as to why there are derelict airplanes rotting on ramps everywhere...they were purchased by owners that failed to realize they need to be financially able to spend $15K - $25K every year to actually maintain and fly them.

Edited February 28, 2019 by MikeOH

[40-0Flight]

1 minute ago, MikeOH said:

I have a theory as to why there are derelict airplanes rotting on ramps everywhere...they were purchased by owners that failed to realize they need to be financially able to spend $15K - $25K to actually maintain and fly them.

Exactly!   Hence the goal of my little project

[carusoam]

Use some level of word selection control...

There are many people that share the MooneySpace...

Both Men and women, students to retirees, kids to grand parents... you never know who is in the room with you... 

Actually, you do know... they are listed at the bottom of the page...

But, you can’t see who will come in next...

Best regards,

-a-

[RLCarter]

An option that has not been mentioned yet is fractional ownership Also if you team up with a buddy on the training side, the stats show your odds of completing your training are greatly increased

[Marauder]

36 minutes ago, 40-0Flight said:

Exactly!   Hence the goal of my little project

I refuse to participate because I am convinced you are either my wife or one of her lackies sent here to find this information out. Which one of you knuckleheads told my wife or this lackey what an AMU was?  

I have kept detailed spreadsheets for the 28 years of ownership. The numbers are staggering. It is not hard to calculate. Fixed operating costs, variable operating costs and reserves depending on whether or not you intend to hand onto the plane for awhile. The hard part is making sure the spouse doesn't find out what I have been up to.

Edited February 28, 2019 by Marauder

[40-0Flight]

8 minutes ago, Marauder said:

I refuse to participate because I am convinced you are either my wife or one of her lackies sent here to find this information out. Which one of you knuckleheads told my wife or this lackey what an AMU was?  

I have kept detailed spreadsheets for the 28 years of ownership. The numbers are staggering. It is not hard to calculate. Fixed operating costs, variable operating costs and reserves depending on whether or not you intend to hand onto the plane for awhile. The hard part is making sure the spouse doesn't find out what I have been up to.

Oh man you are in trouble now.   You just let it slip there is digital proof out there of your 28 years!   Now you're gonna have to burn down the entire internet to stop her from finding it! LOL

[ArtVandelay]

Nope.   Just throw money at the problem till it goes away.
about 8 AMU to get your Private.
I got a call today on the fuel servo.....   2-3 nozzles need to be replaced so .2 - .3 AMU
Rebuild of the fuel servo will probably be 1 AMU

What could go wrong with fuel nozzles?


Tom

[ArtVandelay]

My accountant taught me about the three "F"'s..... If it Flys, Floats or Fornicates it's better to rent it

True if you don’t use it:
If you use plane for real x-country trips, not hamburger runs, owning is better, because a rental costs you whether it’s flying or not. Fly to the beach for a week, rental costs $ all 7 days even though you only used it for 2.
You can’t live on a rental boat.
last one I’ll leave as an exercise for the reader.


Tom

[Mooney-Mark]

About $1,000/mo for 100/hrs/yr, but I'll never put that in writing....oops!  Where's the "delete" button?

[Hank]

OMG!! I read the first couple of posts last night, and thought it  ight be safe to check in now. Is this thread full of numbers? If so, I don't want to read it . . .

Fixed costs:

• Annual
• Hangar / tie down
• Flight reviews
• Pitot static tests
• GPS data (for your particular instrument)

Operating Costs

• Fuel
• Oil
• Oil changes
• Batteries
• Tires
• Overnight fees away from home
• Spark plug changes
• Magneto overhauls
• Engine overhaul

Variable Expenses

• Repairs for things that break
• Repairs formthungs that wear out
• Instrument replacement / upgrades
• Interior work
• Paint
• "Dressing up" the plane
• Everything else . . . .

Fixed Expenses will vary by your location; Operating Expenses will vary by aircraft type & model, how you fly and how often; Variable Expenses are controlled directly by the desires of the Owner. 

If you ever add them up, please don't post them where I will accidentally see the answers . . . . .

[aviatoreb]

9 hours ago, 40-0Flight said:

I just learned what 1 AMU was.  Thank you!

 

Exactly.  Now stay away if they start saying JMU.  Those are big.

[rpcc]

From my inexperience...  use the rental and flying club rates as your base line for your model.   You might ask this group - what are their experiences with engine issues, overhauls etc, new electronics costs, autopilots, paint, interior and everyone's best buddy corrosion, and a tank leaks just for yucks.   

[Danb]

14 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

You really, really, really need to change your approach. This is a game for poets, not accountants! (Sorry @Danb.)

 

I couldn't agree more with you Bobby, I DON'T calculate the cost involved to fly, flying for 35+ years it'd be to depressing, fly have fun and if your checkbook gets low slow down or get out. My goal is to fly as long as I can. Then sell the bucket of bolts and enjoy the proceeds. 

[Danb]

10 hours ago, RLCarter said:

My accountant taught me about the three "F"'s..... If it Flys, Floats or Fornicates it's better to rent it

Your accountant isn't a pilot and is boring, nicest word I could come up with

[Danb]

2 hours ago, Hank said:

OMG!! I read the first couple of posts last night, and thought it  ight be safe to check in now. Is this thread full of numbers? If so, I don't want to read it . . .

Fixed costs:

• Annual
• Hangar / tie down
• Flight reviews
• Pitot static tests
• GPS data (for your particular instrument)

Operating Costs

• Fuel
• Oil
• Oil changes
• Batteries
• Tires
• Overnight fees away from home
• Spark plug changes
• Magneto overhauls
• Engine overhaul

Variable Expenses

• Repairs for things that break
• Repairs formthungs that wear out
• Instrument replacement / upgrades
• Interior work
• Paint
• "Dressing up" the plane
• Everything else . . . .

Fixed Expenses will vary by your location; Operating Expenses will vary by aircraft type & model, how you fly and how often; Variable Expenses are controlled directly by the desires of the Owner. 

If you ever add them up, please don't post them where I will accidentally see the answers . . . . .

Very sad Hank, throw that stuff away

[Marauder]

5 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

What could go wrong with fuel nozzles?


Tom

I've had the screen on one of mine fall out. 

[Marauder]

I know we had this discussion a while back. Don Kaye chimed in that his Bravo annual costs were around 30 AMU. I think it is a healthy read for the owner wannabes that owning an airplane is a financial commitment. It is easy to get enamored with ownership, not so much when you are staring at a 6 AMU annual inspection bill. Those who don't look at the costs obviously have the financial means not to do so. It is a disservice to a potential owner to give the impression that owning a plane doesn't come with many financial strings. Looking back at all those threads where new owners were coping at unexpected costs that should have been expected, should be the reality check.