Commercial Maneuvers in a 252

[gsxrpilot]

Went up with a CFI early this morning to start this process of learning the commercial maneuvers in my 252. I'm still "interviewing" CFI's so this was a bit of a trial run. I asked him to teach me the easiest maneuver for him to fly. So we started with 8's on pylons. Yeah, it was easy. I'll obviously keep practicing, but thought it was a very easy maneuver to fly. We also did stalls and slow flight, which is all pretty easy. Then we finished up with three power-off 180 landings... with touch & goes between them. with the Captains bars as the aim point, the mains touched right on the marks two out of three times. The one I missed was the one time tower gave us Right traffic instead of Left.

So far, so good. 

After we were finished... walking back out to the plane, I noticed one of my inner gear doors hanging open. I took off and flew it home (15 min) and did a low pass so JD could see if it was still hanging open. It was. The retraction arm had broken. Quick call to Mooney, new one ordered for delivery tomorrow. JD & Chad will get that fixed, an oil change, and a quick once over before we leave for Flagstaff, Moab, Tucson, Durango, and anywhere else we might want to go over the Christmas holidays.

[PT20J]

On 10/25/2018 at 8:20 AM, donkaye said:

See the FAA Airplane Flying Handbook FAA-H-8083-3B Page 9-6:

In airplanes with a fixed-pitch propeller, the throttle should be set so as to not exceed rotations per minute (rpm) limitations; in airplanes with constant-speed propellers, power may be set at the normal cruise or climb setting as appropriate. [Figure 9-3B]

When I meet with the DPE, I explain how the student will do the Chandelle regarding power setting.  Never had an issue with them.

Agree with Don. Chandelles and Lazy Eights are coordination maneuvers that are very graceful  once you get the feel for the airplane at constantly changing airspeeds. One sure way to screw them up is to muck around with the power setting which puts you out of trim.

Skip

[mike_elliott]

Paul, next time im in Smithville, lets check you out. I still practice the Comm maneuvers regularly. 

[gsxrpilot]

1 minute ago, mike_elliott said:

Paul, next time im in Smithville, lets check you out. I still practice the Comm maneuvers regularly. 

Yes... please!

[Mcstealth]

On 12/18/2018 at 9:48 AM, mike_elliott said:

Paul, next time im in Smithville, lets check you out. I still practice the Comm maneuvers regularly. 

You were just here. Did Paul do well?

[gsxrpilot]

1 hour ago, Mcstealth said:

You were just here. Did Paul do well?

Unfortunately we were never together in the same airplane at the same time.

Next time...

[mike_elliott]

You were just here. Did Paul do well?

I came back last Saturday, and was back again in Dallas Tuesday until last night. Never saw Paul this trip or last. I'll be back that way I believe the 14th and later towards the end of Jan


Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[Mcstealth]

3 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Unfortunately we were never together in the same airplane at the same time.

Next time...

Well, that does help..... 

 

[Mcstealth]

1 hour ago, mike_elliott said:

I came back last Saturday, and was back again in Dallas Tuesday until last night. Never saw Paul this trip or last. I'll be back that way I believe the 14th and later towards the end of Jan


Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 

Did the Albama couple take delivery?

[Andy95W]

On 12/18/2018 at 10:48 AM, mike_elliott said:

Paul, next time im in Smithville, lets check you out. I still practice the Comm maneuvers regularly. 

I tried a Chandelle and a few Lazy-8s a few days ago out of respect for Paul starting his Commercial training. 

Yikes.

Made me ashamed to admit I got my CPL in my first M20C.

[gsxrpilot]

Just a quick update. So far 8's on Pylons, Steep turns, Chandelles, Lazy 8's, Power-off 180's, are all doable and easy in the 252. Thanks to @donkaye and others for suggesting that "full power" is not a requirement. Pick a good power setting or power target and use it. I'm pleasantly surprised at how easy it is to do these maneuvers in my airplane.

[aviatoreb]

6 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Just a quick update. So far 8's on Pylons, Steep turns, Chandelles, Lazy 8's, Power-off 180's, are all doable and easy in the 252. Thanks to @donkaye and others for suggesting that "full power" is not a requirement. Pick a good power setting or power target and use it. I'm pleasantly surprised at how easy it is to do these maneuvers in my airplane.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N314EB/history/20181219/1528Z/KBTV/KBTV

Edited January 16, 2019 by aviatoreb

[Txbyker]

5 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N314EB/history/20181219/1528Z/KBTV/KBTV

Erik, far left bottom=8's on pylons,  above that on left=steep turns, lazy 8's, emergency decents, far right=stalls, changelles???  Interesting trip.

Russ

[aviatoreb]

4 minutes ago, Txbyker said:

Erik, far left bottom=8's on pylons,  above that on left=steep turns, lazy 8's, emergency decents, far right=stalls, changelles???  Interesting trip.

Russ

You got it!

[gsxrpilot]

http://www.cloudahoy.com/debrief/?key=jsCGHKBYGk1XVYzDj8E

This was my first attempt at Chandelles, Lazy 8's, and Steep turns.

[aviatoreb]

3 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

http://www.cloudahoy.com/debrief/?key=jsCGHKBYGk1XVYzDj8E

This was my first attempt at Chandelles, Lazy 8's, and Steep turns.

Were you lost?

[chrisk]

I got my commercial a few years ago.  I should have followed it quickly with a CFI, but I didn't. 

[Andy95W]

Paul- @gsxrpilot- when do you lower the gear on your power off 180s?  I tried doing some today, they were ugly but safe.

In the "Check Gear!" thread, you mentioned an instructor who had taught you to not let the gear warning sound- either add power, or lower the gear, but do something to silence the horn.  I can't imagine doing the power off 180 without hearing the gear horn a lot.  Wondered what your experience is now that you're starting the Commercial.

[skykrawler]

I did the commercial in my J.  For the power off 180's at the 180 pt I lowered the gear and deployed full flaps, and descended at 80 kts and adjusted to below 70 approaching the spot.  This seemed to reduce the number of variables.   The examiner may be pleased to see you use a slip to adjust (a lost art to many).  This also keeps you a little closer in on the base turn which for me was really a continuous turning descent.

The gear horn stays on during the spiral descent.  I asked the DPE if he wanted me to pull the breaker to silence the horn and he said don't worry about it.  The spiral has the worst rapid cooling.  I did my ride in the Feb/Mar time frame.

Score additional points by referencing your airport taxi diagram on the taxi out.

[mike_elliott]

8 hours ago, Andy95W said:

Paul- @gsxrpilot- when do you lower the gear on your power off 180s?  I tried doing some today, they were ugly but safe.

In the "Check Gear!" thread, you mentioned an instructor who had taught you to not let the gear warning sound- either add power, or lower the gear, but do something to silence the horn.  I can't imagine doing the power off 180 without hearing the gear horn a lot.  Wondered what your experience is now that you're starting the Commercial.

I teach to lower the gear upon pulling power. Get that costly variable dealt with. The rest of the power off 180 is simply energy management, which is what it is supposed to be teaching you. There are plenty of ways to dirty up the plane if needed, and if done right, you wont have to. Once practiced with the plane in this landing configuration, it is less difficult than practicing the maneuver "clean" and  risking being "distracted" YMMV

[gsxrpilot]

10 hours ago, Andy95W said:

Paul- @gsxrpilot- when do you lower the gear on your power off 180s?  I tried doing some today, they were ugly but safe.

In the "Check Gear!" thread, you mentioned an instructor who had taught you to not let the gear warning sound- either add power, or lower the gear, but do something to silence the horn.  I can't imagine doing the power off 180 without hearing the gear horn a lot.  Wondered what your experience is now that you're starting the Commercial.

 

2 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

I teach to lower the gear upon pulling power. Get that costly variable dealt with. The rest of the power off 180 is simply energy management, which is what it is supposed to be teaching you. There are plenty of ways to dirty up the plane if needed, and if done right, you wont have to. Once practiced with the plane in this landing configuration, it is less difficult than practicing the maneuver "clean" and  risking being "distracted" YMMV

What @mike_elliott said. I pull the power and drop the gear. Those are the only two prerequisites for the maneuver, so then all that's left is to hit the right spot. I've got geometry, pitch, flaps, slips, and speed brakes to help me hit it. That's plenty of tools so no need to complicate things with the gear. At least that's what I'm practicing and it seems to be working out pretty well.

[Hank]

2 hours ago, skykrawler said:

The gear horn stays on during the spiral descent.  I asked the DPE if he wanted me to pull the breaker to silence the horn and he said don't worry about it.  The spiral has the worst rapid cooling.  I did my ride in the Feb/Mar time frame.

Which spiral descent is this? I do spiral emergency descents at cruise speed, clean, and 2000+ fpm down . . .

[gsxrpilot]

1 minute ago, Hank said:

Which spiral descent is this? I do spiral emergency descents at cruise speed, clean, and 2000+ fpm down . . .

One of the required Commercial maneuvers is the Steep Spiral. I haven't done those yet, but then I don't subscribe to the "shock cooling" myth either. I'll probably do some the next time up with the CFI.

[Hank]

1 minute ago, gsxrpilot said:

One of the required Commercial maneuvers is the Steep Spiral. I haven't done those yet, but then I don't subscribe to the "shock cooling" myth either. I'll probably do some the next time up with the CFI.

I don't remember pulling power back, but it's been a couple of years. Just bank over 45º, trim down a little bit and fall out of the sky! It's fun. 

[gsxrpilot]

I did them once in my M20C with a CFI. He was actually the owner of the flight school with lots of instructors. He was showing me how to perform the maneuver and blew right past VNE. He said he was surprised at how slippery the Mooney was.