Add GPSS / Roll Steering Converter???

[bradp]

There is definitely value to hand flying. 

When the workload is high, there is value to reducing workload 

If you’re using autopilot at all why not use it to its fullest extent so long as its properly being monitored. 

There is a definite role for hand flying for maintaining proficiency and being able to do everything the autopilot can do.  Click click click.  

 

[jlunseth]

I have the Icarus SAM.  That combined with my 430 will fly an entire approach including the procedure turn with a few button pushes in the KFC. It really helps in heavy taskload conditions. I find it is really useful in difficult turbulence. When I practice approaches or fly for currency I mix methods and do some fully automatic, some semi=autmatic, and some by hand.

[flyboy0681]

4 minutes ago, jlunseth said:

I have the Icarus SAM.  That combined with my 430 will fly an entire approach including the procedure turn with a few button pushes in the KFC. It really helps in heavy taskload conditions. I find it is really useful in difficult turbulence. When I practice approaches or fly for currency I mix methods and do some fully automatic, some semi=autmatic, and some by hand.

What I find most useful are the aural announcements, especially the altitude alerts and GUMPS check.

[jlunseth]

12 hours ago, flyboy0681 said:

What I find most useful are the aural announcements, especially the altitude alerts and GUMPS check.

Yes and no.  For a trip with a takeoff, route, and landing they are fine.  During practice there is just too much. I am always getting “GUMPS” for the third or fourth time, right when I am trying to hear a controller.  

[flyboy0681]

10 minutes ago, jlunseth said:

During practice there is just too much. I am always getting “GUMPS” for the third or fourth time, right when I am trying to hear a controller.  

Music to my ears.

[H.B.Avionic]

If anybody is looking for a used working icarus sam gpss with switch,etc... let me know.

[1980Mooney]

On 10/19/2018 at 4:09 PM, kortopates said:

I have to take the contarian view on GPSS. I personally wouldn't pay anything extra for it. But it's nice when it comes with your avioincs as it did on my G500. But from where I sit, it's just one of the fastest gadgets to losing instrument proficiency. If a pilot needs it to keep up they really shouldn't be relying on it to fly in the system let alone fly IMC. It shouldn't be a crutch to allow getting behind the aircraft and delegate your PIC responsibilities to the GPS and GPSS. Consider what's going to happen to the pilot that habitually engages the AP on departure to use it throughout the flight till the day comes when a failure of some sort takes out the AP. How is a pilot that hasn't been maintaining their proficiency going cope now? Although that may not be popular,it has been my personal philosophy for maintaining my own proficiency.

Don't get me wrong. Using all your available resources is smart flying, but becoming dependent on technology to the point you have no proficiency without it is a huge mistake IMO.

I suspect that most pilots have lost proficiency for dead reckoning and radio navigation as they have come habitually dependent upon GPS over the past 20 years.  There is always the chance that GPS could be compromised by jamming, hacking or a satellite attack resulting in our dependence upon radio nav as a backup.  By the same logic above there is no reason to pay extra for anything such as GPS that is a crutch and the fastest gadget to undermine the attainment of 1960-70's era IFR proficiency (which, although a lot of work, was just fine and safe for getting from point A to point B).

The introduction and adoption of new technology in aviation will continue to make flight safer and more efficient. This topic reminds me of the debate over the past 20 years regarding manual vs. automatic transmissions in sports and performance cars.  The argument was that a manual transmission in the hands of a "skilled and proficient" driver was always faster than an automatic.....until it wasn't.  Ferrari and Lamborghini don't even offer new cars with manual transmissions any longer.  Technology in the form of automated dual clutch and other designs have passed the "proficiency" of mere mortals.  I suspect in the not too distant future the best selling certified GA aircraft will come standard with fully integrated GPSS, NAV and Autoland systems, single throttle/prop control, electronic ignition/engine management controls, and BRS (all integrated together).  I am sure that there will be smart ways to embrace new technology and still have a safe level of prophecy for potential system failures. 

[Jerry 5TJ]

19 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

I suspect that most pilots have lost proficiency for dead reckoning and radio navigation.....

Yesterday (while droning along at 15,000’ with George flying GPS direct) I turned on the ADF receiver.  Yes, it’s still installed.  Of the 6 nearest NDB stations (helpfully listed by the GTN750) only 2 were actually operating.   

Pilot radio navigation skills aren’t that useful when the navaids have been neglected or shut down.  
 

[kortopates]

I suspect that most pilots have lost proficiency for dead reckoning and radio navigation as they have come habitually dependent upon GPS over the past 20 years.  There is always the chance that GPS could be compromised by jamming, hacking or a satellite attack resulting in our dependence upon radio nav as a backup.  By the same logic above there is no reason to pay extra for anything such as GPS that is a crutch and the fastest gadget to undermine the attainment of 1960-70's era IFR proficiency (which, although a lot of work, was just fine and safe for getting from point A to point . The introduction and adoption of new technology in aviation will continue to make flight safer and more efficient. This topic reminds me of the debate over the past 20 years regarding manual vs. automatic transmissions in sports and performance cars.  The argument was that a manual transmission in the hands of a "skilled and proficient" driver was always faster than an automatic.....until it wasn't.  Ferrari and Lamborghini don't even offer new cars with manual transmissions any longer.  Technology in the form of automated dual clutch and other designs have passed the "proficiency" of mere mortals.  I suspect in the not too distant future the best selling certified GA aircraft will come standard with fully integrated GPSS, NAV and Autoland systems, single throttle/prop control, electronic ignition/engine management controls, and BRS (all integrated together).  I am sure that there will be smart ways to embrace new technology and still have a safe level of prophecy for potential system failures. 

 

By far, the gravest risk to a pilot’s proficiency is an over reliance on their autopilot. GPSS just takes the pilot out of the loop even more.  If the term "GPS" is used to suggest reliance on the magenta line on the moving map is also at the cost of instrument proficiency then I agree whole heatedly. But that's not "GPS" but navigating by moving map which neither wise nor legal. GPS approaches are arguably more complicated than conventional ground based approaches with respect to fully understanding them and perhaps require more effort to maintain proficiency; even though they can be easier to fly. As far as GPS outages go, absolutely a proficient pilots has to be able to switch from GPS to VOR airways - I've posted about a couple of GPS jamming events i lost GPS from including one when IMC in turbulent weather. But in all fairness its much more common to see VOR's go out of service for significant periods of time. But I couldn't agree more though with your concluding remark that we need to make a larger effort to smartly master our automation capabilities without becoming solely dependent such that our safety is significantly compromised due to an automation or other system failures.  

[421_Pilot]

On 4/17/2020 at 4:10 AM, H.B.Avionic said:

If anybody is looking for a used working icarus sam gpss with switch,etc... let me know.

I'm interested in this if still available.  PM sent

[Ragsf15e]

3 hours ago, 421_Pilot said:

I'm interested in this if still available.  PM sent

I have an STEC GPSS as well if anyone is interested.  Make offer.