Rick Junkin Posted August 6, 2018 Report Posted August 6, 2018 My apologies up front for failing with my search skills - I couldn’t find a thread that talks about using something other than rivets in the radio stack trays. So the question - is there an approved alternative to riveting the radio racks in the Mooney radio stack? I have an M20M going through a “minor” avionics upgrade that is turning into a bit of a pain due to overlapping side-by-side racks and hidden rivets. I’m upgrading my transponder, which is mounted to the right of the main stack. The existing transponder rack rivets are underneath the center radio stack trays, so everything has to come out to drill the rivets and R&R the transponder rack. I’d like to put everything back in with more easily inserted and removed fasteners. Any help with ideas and things that have worked for you are much appreciated! Cheers, Rick 2 Quote
Ned Gravel Posted August 6, 2018 Report Posted August 6, 2018 Rick: All of my avionics upgrades have involved screws and nuts. Some folks may like rivets if there is a paucity of space between the racks. I never had a whole lot of space, but enough for the screws and nuts. 1 1 Quote
autopatch Posted August 6, 2018 Report Posted August 6, 2018 Rick - When I had my avionics racks replaced, the A&P doing the work insisted that they had to be redone with rivets because “that is how it came from the factory”. I don’t have any way to verify his position or not; I’m just relaying what happened to me. YMMV. Chris 1 Quote
takair Posted August 7, 2018 Report Posted August 7, 2018 I’ve always replaced the racks with countersunk screws and tinnermans or nut-plates, depending on the room. More important, I pick up the aft side of the bottom rack with a hanger, so it can’t sag. This should meet the loading requirements in ac43-13. Often, the rails are Swiss cheese, so rivets are often not going to work, without some rework of the rails....which is often required anyway. 1 1 Quote
Guest tommy123 Posted August 7, 2018 Report Posted August 7, 2018 (edited) I always use countersunk screws and clip on nut plates. In fact the Garmin xponder I just installed came with them. Your A&P is wrong and anal. As far as sagging I use four fasteners for the bottom rack, there’s provisions for two on each side on every rack I’ve seen. A hanger works too. Edited August 7, 2018 by tommy123 Quote
Cruiser Posted August 7, 2018 Report Posted August 7, 2018 13 hours ago, Junkman said: My apologies up front for failing with my search skills - I couldn’t find a thread that talks about using something other than rivets in the radio stack trays. So the question - is there an approved alternative to riveting the radio racks in the Mooney radio stack? I have an M20M going through a “minor” avionics upgrade that is turning into a bit of a pain due to overlapping side-by-side racks and hidden rivets. I’m upgrading my transponder, which is mounted to the right of the main stack. The existing transponder rack rivets are underneath the center radio stack trays, so everything has to come out to drill the rivets and R&R the transponder rack. I’d like to put everything back in with more easily inserted and removed fasteners. Any help with ideas and things that have worked for you are much appreciated! Cheers, Rick This is a legitimate problem. The right side of the center stack and the left side of the copilot side stack are back to back so there is no room (between) the rails to put a rivenut or a locknut or even a tinnerman The connection must go through both rails and clearing what is being mounting opposite of each other. I was able to space the center stack and the right side stack trays to lineup and avoid the interference but they are riveted together.. The only solution I can see is to remove the entire rail on the center stack side of the right hand side stack, put the flush side of the rivet or bolt in from the rail side and attach on the inside of the tray. Mount all the trays to the left side rail then slide the entire right side rack 'assembly' in the panel as one unit and attach the rails at the top and bottom. The same space (clearance) problem exists on the right side rail next to the circuit breaker panel. 1 Quote
N201MKTurbo Posted August 7, 2018 Report Posted August 7, 2018 The hardest part is putting the countersinks inside the radio racks for the double flush rivets. I ended up spinning the countersinks with my fingertips for hours on end. I'm sure there is a right angle air tool somewhere that will do that, but I don't have one. Most radio racks will accommodate overdriven shop heads on the radio side. 1 Quote
jaylw314 Posted August 7, 2018 Report Posted August 7, 2018 1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said: The hardest part is putting the countersinks inside the radio racks for the double flush rivets. I ended up spinning the countersinks with my fingertips for hours on end. I'm sure there is a right angle air tool somewhere that will do that, but I don't have one. Most radio racks will accommodate overdriven shop heads on the radio side. How about this? It has saved my bacon on a number of occasions. Requires a threaded drill bit. 2 Quote
N201MKTurbo Posted August 7, 2018 Report Posted August 7, 2018 9 minutes ago, jaylw314 said: How about this? It has saved my bacon on a number of occasions. Requires a threaded drill bit. Sweet! I may have to pick that up. Thanks for the recommendation! Quote
Andy95W Posted August 7, 2018 Report Posted August 7, 2018 1 hour ago, jaylw314 said: How about this? It has saved my bacon on a number of occasions. Requires a threaded drill bit. Dang, that's pretty slick! Quote
Rick Junkin Posted September 5, 2018 Author Report Posted September 5, 2018 Thanks to everyone for the input. John went with rivets this time, as it was a minor upgrade (GMA340, GTX345, and Flightstream 210) and it wasn’t overly difficult. The BIG upgrade I have planned for either 2021 or when my current panel/avionics starts going Tango Uniform, whichever comes first, may be the time to explore other tray mounting options. If I come up with something new and ingenious I’ll certainly be sharing here. Cheers, Rick Quote
thinwing Posted September 6, 2018 Report Posted September 6, 2018 That rack is a pain....I had to make multiple passes with a hydraulic rivet squeezer to get both sides absolutely flush. Quote
Yetti Posted September 7, 2018 Report Posted September 7, 2018 I could not think of a better way than rivets since the two racks are really flush against each other. Mine had through screws with phillips heads on the bottom tube holding the panel in. They were replaced with cap head allen screws which is much easier to take off and on when laying in the footwell. Quote
Guest Posted September 8, 2018 Report Posted September 8, 2018 On 8/7/2018 at 1:14 AM, tommy123 said: I always use countersunk screws and clip on nut plates. In fact the Garmin xponder I just installed came with them. Your A&P is wrong and anal. As far as sagging I use four fasteners for the bottom rack, there’s provisions for two on each side on every rack I’ve seen. A hanger works too. I always use screws and nuts, except in places where there isn’t room for them, like in some Mooney radio racks. Clarence Quote
Zulee Posted October 6, 2018 Report Posted October 6, 2018 On 9/5/2018 at 5:20 PM, Junkman said: Thanks to everyone for the input. John went with rivets this time, as it was a minor upgrade (GMA340, GTX345, and Flightstream 210) and it wasn’t overly difficult. The BIG upgrade I have planned for either 2021 or when my current panel/avionics starts going Tango Uniform, whichever comes first, may be the time to explore other tray mounting options. If I come up with something new and ingenious I’ll certainly be sharing here. Cheers, Rick I guess I wasn't paying intention when you said you installed the flightstream with your upgrades. I decided not to install with my upgrade but maybe I need to stroll over to your hangar and let you demo it for me...maybe I will see what I'm missing and reconsider. Quote
Zulee Posted October 6, 2018 Report Posted October 6, 2018 Just now, Zulee said: I guess I wasn't paying intention when you said you installed the flightstream with your upgrades. I decided not to install with my upgrade but maybe I need to stroll over to your hangar and let you demo it for me...maybe I will see what I'm missing and reconsider. I guess I wasn't paying "attention" to my post as well...it's too early in the morning Quote
bradp Posted October 7, 2018 Report Posted October 7, 2018 And it is not hard to drill out the existing rivets with a right angle or squeeze new ones with an appropriately compact yoke. Just need the right tools. Quote
Rick Junkin Posted October 8, 2018 Author Report Posted October 8, 2018 On 10/6/2018 at 4:13 AM, Zulee said: I guess I wasn't paying intention when you said you installed the flightstream with your upgrades. I decided not to install with my upgrade but maybe I need to stroll over to your hangar and let you demo it for me...maybe I will see what I'm missing and reconsider. I'll be at the hangar this evening, text me if you're headed out. Cheers, Rick Quote
Baker Avionics Posted October 10, 2018 Report Posted October 10, 2018 Look at Radiorax https://www.radiorax.com/ believe me, you're welcome!!!! They are amazing and will save you money when you want to upgrade later, because we ALWAYS do. Quote
N201MKTurbo Posted October 10, 2018 Report Posted October 10, 2018 6 minutes ago, The Avionics Specialists said: Look at Radiorax https://www.radiorax.com/ believe me, you're welcome!!!! They are amazing and will save you money when you want to upgrade later, because we ALWAYS do. I didn’t see anything on their website that would work on my plane. What were you thinking of? Quote
Baker Avionics Posted October 10, 2018 Report Posted October 10, 2018 http://www.radiorax.com/tray_mount/ yes is it will work wornderfully Quote
Rick Junkin Posted October 11, 2018 Author Report Posted October 11, 2018 23 hours ago, The Avionics Specialists said: Look at Radiorax https://www.radiorax.com/ believe me, you're welcome!!!! They are amazing and will save you money when you want to upgrade later, because we ALWAYS do. Minimum rail thickness of 1/4” - I won’t be at my airplane for a couple of days to measure, does anyone know off hand how thick the center rail between the two radio stacks is? Certainly looks like a good idea if it will fit. Also spawns some thoughts of a good use for a milling machine for owner-fabricated parts if these are too thick. Cheers, Rick Quote
Steve W Posted October 11, 2018 Report Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Junkman said: Minimum rail thickness of 1/4” - I won’t be at my airplane for a couple of days to measure, does anyone know off hand how thick the center rail between the two radio stacks is? Certainly looks like a good idea if it will fit. Also spawns some thoughts of a good use for a milling machine for owner-fabricated parts if these are too thick. Cheers, Rick Here's a picture I took a while back, accuracy not guaranteed: https://photos.app.goo.gl/jDAwTYL9x3ggxxjN6 (1994 M20J) Edited October 11, 2018 by Steve W Quote
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