Oldguy Posted September 30, 2019 Report Posted September 30, 2019 "Off airport landing" where I walked away from the plane. Spent a total of 5 minutes with paramedic getting BP taken and then released. Shoulder belt worn. 4 Quote
HIghpockets Posted September 30, 2019 Report Posted September 30, 2019 My former flight instructor was only wearing a lap belt (no shoulder harness) when his Navion lost an engine. He landed short and struck a berm. He sustained a severe cervical spine injury that left him with permanent quadraparesis as a consequence of the violent flexion/extension movement of his head striking the panel. Quote
tigers2007 Posted October 1, 2019 Report Posted October 1, 2019 I wonder how many WW2 pilots would have lived if they had harnesses on. Years ago I saw some archived photos of military pilots that had fatal face and head trauma. I can’t believe any aircraft owner flies without some sort of harness. It’s a cheap upgrade with so much potential. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote
steingar Posted October 1, 2019 Report Posted October 1, 2019 I flew my Cherokee for 10 years with just lap belts. Can't believe how dumb I was. One of my pals lost his engine on takeoff in his new to him Deb, went down in a field. His sunglasses were embedded in his face, along with some of his panel. He didn't fly, drive, chew gum or do much of anything else for a year. And he went down in a field. Shoulder harnesses, every time. Mrs. Steingar didn't like them, the shoulder belt got caught in the side of the aircraft and was difficult to fasten. She complained. I think it was the first time in our marriage that I told her to shut the fuck up and just do as she was told. Yes, I'm still married. I am never flying without shoulder harnesses again. Maybe I should look into the airbags. From what I read it took north of 20 million to certify the things, so 3 grand is quite the bargain. 3 Quote
RLCarter Posted October 1, 2019 Report Posted October 1, 2019 3 hours ago, steingar said: Mrs. Steingar didn't like them, the shoulder belt got caught in the side of the aircraft and was difficult to fasten. She complained. I think it was the first time in our marriage that I told her to shut the fuck up and just do as she was told. Yes, I'm still married. Still married? We want to know how long you were in the hospital..... 1 2 Quote
kerry Posted October 2, 2019 Report Posted October 2, 2019 14 hours ago, tigers2007 said: I wonder how many WW2 pilots would have lived if they had harnesses on. Years ago I saw some archived photos of military pilots that had fatal face and head trauma. I can’t believe any aircraft owner flies without some sort of harness. It’s a cheap upgrade with so much potential. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I understand your logic but it makes me think how many WW2 pilots survived because they didn't have shoulder harnesses allowing them to have more maneuverability during combat. Quote
carusoam Posted October 2, 2019 Report Posted October 2, 2019 Kerry I like your logic... but... Getting strapped in and wearing a helmet seems to be the key to survival in modern fighters... Getting separated from the seat may require a tool to cut some straps... Plan A... survive the impact... Plan B... survive getting out of the plane... You need to be conscious after step A, to execute step B... A successful execution of plan B.... usually includes a pic and a post on MS... letting everyone know you are Ok... Best regards, -a- Quote
Brandontwalker Posted October 2, 2019 Report Posted October 2, 2019 Fred, I used Clarence’s method and got a field approval by my local FSDO. I still have a mock-up bracket I built at the hangar. I’ll take a picture and post it for you next time I go to the airport. Basic metal working skills and a cheap MIG welder are all that you need. Brandon Fred,I looked, but believe the first mock up of the bracket fell casualty to a massive purge associated with a recent move. However, I was able to find pics of the actual brackets, mount location, and finished product:Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 Quote
steingar Posted October 2, 2019 Report Posted October 2, 2019 16 hours ago, RLCarter said: Still married? We want to know how long you were in the hospital..... Its funny, but long ago I told Mrs. Steingar that I might have to tell her to shut the fuck up in the airplane. She's cool with it. I have too, and yes we stay married. Mrs. Steingar is quite intelligent. She was a bit miffed at the shoulder belt thing until our pal crashed his Deb. I showed her the photos of the aftermath. She doesn't complain about the shoulder belts anymore. 2 Quote
WilliamR Posted October 2, 2019 Report Posted October 2, 2019 11 hours ago, kerry said: I understand your logic but it makes me think how many WW2 pilots survived because they didn't have shoulder harnesses allowing them to have more maneuverability during combat. So, my grandfather and I had a good conversation about that very trade off. Btw, all the fighters he flew and I think the bombers (B-24, 25, and 29) had at least four point harnesses. Anyway, his thought was he would rather be strapped in tight and swivel his head around than loose in the straps and be injured in a crash. He saw the aftermath of a friend shot down who ditched in the water just off base on Bougainville Island and had their straps loose. The gun sight on the P-39 peeled his nose back. When I fly I make sure I'm pretty tightly strapped in. When flying aerobatics, I also ratchet down the straps further after flying for awhile. William 1 Quote
gsxrpilot Posted October 2, 2019 Report Posted October 2, 2019 This is something that I've gotten from all the wisdom and experience on this site. Consequently I won't fly or ride in a Mooney without shoulder belts and a proper CO monitor. Of course, I can bring my own CO monitor along if riding in another Mooney without one. 1 Quote
Hank Posted October 2, 2019 Report Posted October 2, 2019 13 hours ago, carusoam said: Kerry I like your logic... but... Getting strapped in and wearing a helmet seems to be the key to survival in modern fighters... Getting separated from the seat may require a tool to cut some straps... Plan A... survive the impact... Plan B... survive getting out of the plane... You need to be conscious after step A, to execute step B... A successful execution of plan B.... usually includes a pic and a post on MS... letting everyone know you are Ok... Best regards, -a- WWII planes didn't have ejection seats. Open the canopy / window / door, unstrap, stand up and jump! Preferably quickly, while the plane may be corkscrewing down and on fire . . . . God bless them all!! 2 Quote
0TreeLemur Posted October 3, 2019 Report Posted October 3, 2019 15 hours ago, Brandontwalker said: Fred, I looked, but believe the first mock up of the bracket fell casualty to a massive purge associated with a recent move. However, I was able to find pics of the actual brackets, mount location, and finished product: Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Thanks a bunch! Those are taller than I expected, but I get the gist. I can whip some of those up. I'm better at metal work than sewing Is there any way you could send me a scanned copy of the 337 that you filed? That would really help me with getting approval. Between you and @M20Doc I really appreciate the excellent help/advice!!! Quote
Brandontwalker Posted October 3, 2019 Report Posted October 3, 2019 Thanks a bunch! Those are taller than I expected, but I get the gist. I can whip some of those up. I'm better at metal work than sewing Is there any way you could send me a scanned copy of the 337 that you filed? That would really help me with getting approval. Between you and [mention=12030]M20Doc[/mention] I really appreciate the excellent help/advice!!! One of the concerns was keeping the correct geometry, so the brackets were sized to match the geometry of the shoulder harness in the front seat. There was absolutely no change to the airframe, so the FSDO agreed no 337 was required. The inspector just noted what was done and the approval in the file. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote
bradp Posted October 3, 2019 Report Posted October 3, 2019 So these can be done as a minor mod is the takeaway? Quote
bradp Posted October 3, 2019 Report Posted October 3, 2019 On 10/2/2019 at 7:45 AM, Brandontwalker said: Fred, I looked, but believe the first mock up of the bracket fell casualty to a massive purge associated with a recent move. However, I was able to find pics of the actual brackets, mount location, and finished product: Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Brandon why did you double up and weld the sheet metal at the bolt pass through? Did you need more structure at that point or was it a fittment issue or something else? Thanks!! Quote
Brandontwalker Posted October 3, 2019 Report Posted October 3, 2019 Brandon why did you double up and weld the sheet metal at the bolt pass through? Did you need more structure at that point or was it a fittment issue or something else? Thanks!! I tend to over engineer. The mounting piece is thin with two holes in it for bolts. Just an added margin of error in the event it is ever subjected to loads. And yes, I did heat treat the steel after welding. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote
FastTex Posted October 6, 2019 Report Posted October 6, 2019 So...what's the preferred solution to buy and install shoulder belts? I visited a few sites but it is not clear...It's for a friend of mine with a M20F 1970 ;-))))))))))))))) Thanks! Quote
EricJ Posted October 6, 2019 Report Posted October 6, 2019 1 hour ago, FastTex said: So...what's the preferred solution to buy and install shoulder belts? I visited a few sites but it is not clear...It's for a friend of mine with a M20F 1970 ;-))))))))))))))) Thanks! These are what I have. I think most A&Ps could put them in.https://alphaaviation.com/mooney-m20-a-thru-k-push-button-release/ 2 Quote
FastTex Posted October 6, 2019 Report Posted October 6, 2019 15 minutes ago, EricJ said: These are what I have. I think most A&Ps could put them in.https://alphaaviation.com/mooney-m20-a-thru-k-push-button-release/ Wow, more than $1k but I should not be surprised. Plus installation... Quote
Skates97 Posted October 6, 2019 Report Posted October 6, 2019 33 minutes ago, EricJ said: These are what I have. I think most A&Ps could put them in.https://alphaaviation.com/mooney-m20-a-thru-k-push-button-release/ Take your time (the left side is a beast) and a semi-handy owner can do it with a sign-off from your A&P. 16 minutes ago, FastTex said: Wow, more than $1k but I should not be surprised. Plus installation... This was the first upgrade I did on the plane shortly after buying it. Think of it as the best money that you can spend and hopefully never need. 2 Quote
Andy95W Posted October 6, 2019 Report Posted October 6, 2019 18 minutes ago, FastTex said: Wow, more than $1k but I should not be surprised. Plus installation... But protecting you and your loved ones from a TBI- priceless. 1 1 Quote
FastTex Posted October 6, 2019 Report Posted October 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, Andy95W said: But protecting you and your loved ones from a TBI- priceless. Very true. Do you guys have the inertial reel or the fixed one? Quote
EricJ Posted October 7, 2019 Report Posted October 7, 2019 1 hour ago, FastTex said: Very true. Do you guys have the inertial reel or the fixed one? I have the inertial. Much better, IMHO. Quote
skydvrboy Posted October 7, 2019 Report Posted October 7, 2019 I just bought a set from Hooker Harness. They were $400 for both front seats, $200 each, plus shipping. You still need to buy the bolts and clamp from Alpha Aviation, but a lot more reasonable price. I’ll post pictures when I get them in. 2 Quote
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