Rayjay Turbo Kicks!

[JETmachine]

15 hours ago, tomgo2 said:

@JETmachine, do you own an M20C and interested in a RAJAY kit? 

 

Tomgo2,

My 1963 M20C modified is powered by a 1993 IO360A3B6D with 980 TTSN. The mod includes the 1993 M20J cowl and McCulley prop.

Question: Can a RayJay turbo attach to a fuel injected engine? 

Question II: The 190kts on the M20C is impressive given the unmodified Cs don't have the LoPresti aerodynamics of the J-models.

175KT is the shortest bodied M20C, with the 1/4" J windshield, Cowl, one-piece belly-pan, wing-tips, wing-root mod, and the empenage speed mods causing me to wonder how all the drag reduction would play with the RayJay equiped 200hp power.

We made a two-way pass at sealevel at 55F,  28"mp & "2700rpm on radar at 204mph.

If the RayJay can be installed on a fuel injected LYC, what will that set me back, and how long would the installation take. Where is your shop. We are in the San Francisco area. 

 

 

[JETmachine]

11 hours ago, carusoam said:

 

.. finding rusty cams takes a specific effort to look for it.

 

 

 

Please walk us through your technique for searching for a rusty cam during a PPI. Curious minds want to know. 

A&P COM GLD SEL IFR Dude here.

(suggestions how to flip pic are welcome, grrr))

 

Edited October 18, 2018 by JETmachine
typo

[Guest]

Ferrous metal in oil filter has been from failed cam and lifter faces in my 35 years of experience, this leads to pulling 2 cylinders for confirmation of the source.

Clarence

[MIm20c]

5 hours ago, JETmachine said:

Tomgo2,

My 1963 M20C modified is powered by a 1993 IO360A3B6D with 980 TTSN. The mod includes the 1993 M20J cowl and McCulley prop.

Question: Can a RayJay turbo attach to a fuel injected engine? 

Question II: The 190kts on the M20C is impressive given the unmodified Cs don't have the LoPresti aerodynamics of the J-models.

175KT is the shortest bodied M20C, with the 1/4" J windshield, Cowl, one-piece belly-pan, wing-tips, wing-root mod, and the empenage speed mods causing me to wonder how all the drag reduction would play with the RayJay equiped 200hp power.

We made a two-way pass at sealevel at 55F,  28"mp & "2700rpm on radar at 204mph.

Sounds like a fast rig. The 190kt C is wishful thinking at 20k as my plane does not have the J cowl, I’ll know soon enough.  I know at 13,500 it easily pushes into the mid 60’s at higher power settings.  

204 mph is impressive, my vne is around 190 mph so I’d have a hard time duplicating that. 

The IO engine makes a better engine for the turbo with the more precise fuel distribution. However, I find the turbo really evens out the fuel/temps in my plane. 

[JETmachine]

3 hours ago, MIm20c said:

"...my vne is around 190 mph ...". 

 

I spoke with Bill Wheat (my 1963 logbook's flight test pilot entry) about the the C's Vne. 

1. Wheat noted the 63 M20C had a two-piece windshield. In those days, they picked a number they thought would be Okay. 
2. Bill went on to say, the 1/4" 201 windshield mod has been tested up to 240mph. My concern was flutter.
3. Wheat said flutter is not possible in an Mooney. He observed that the control surface hinge-lines are not 90-degrees to the longitudinal axis making flutter impossible. 
4. The inspiration for 175KT was a talk by Roy LoPresti describing how he got 200mph out of 200hp in 1976. LoPresti, as Mooney's CEO and test pilot came out of the US Atlis missile development program with his specialization in parasitic drag reduction. LoPresti said he took a Mark 21 (lighter and 29" shorter than the J model). LoPresti said they sat outside looking at the AC trying to imagine how to reduce drag. That led to the rake on the cowl & windshield. the square wingtip vorticies drag was reduced with aerodynamic wingtips. 
5. The drag was reduced around the high psi of the belly's seven panels by removing and designing a single-piece belly pan that smooth the surface in the high psi area. 
6. Aileron counter-weights were taken out of the slip-stream and put inside the wingtips. 
7. Wing-fusalage mod smoothed the transition between body and wing. 
8. It turns out, Mooney bought the North American P-51 wing jig (in the 1950s?) which accounts for the excellent high speed performance. 

[carusoam]

Talking with Bill Wheat was a blast!

He loved to discuss Mooneys...

I met him by phone while looking for proper docs for my new to me M20C.  He set me up with everything! Owners manual and the latest POH.

Later on, I asked him a question regarding dimensions of the calibrated weep hole in the MP line... it was documented in one drawing, but not all drawings...

He would have been a great MSer.

Best regards,

-a-

 

[carusoam]

11 hours ago, JETmachine said:

 

Please walk us through your technique for searching for a rusty cam during a PPI. Curious minds want to know. 

A&P COM GLD SEL IFR Dude here.

(suggestions how to flip pic are welcome, grrr))

 

Jet,

see the post from M20Doc regarding rusty cam inspections...

It is a bit intrusive, not very easy, really challenging on a plane you don’t own...

as for flipping pics... that can be done by any photo editor outside MS...

I would have done so, but doing it via iPhone won’t allow me to copy and save today... all thumbs... 

Best regards,

-a-

 

wait... how is this?

[Prior owner]

Following this thread with interest as I see no way to inspect a cam on these engines without pulling out a cylinder a little bit to get a scope in the case. Doc is right, but oil filters might be changed prior to a PPI, invalidating the results of a filter inspection.

The discussion with Bill Wheat is priceless - thank you for sharing that!

[JETmachine]

28 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Talking with Bill Wheat was a blast!

 

 

Bill made easy work of a problem when I STC'd the '93 24v LYC onto the '63C 12v AC. 

1. The engine doesn't care if its 12v or 24v. 
2. He counseled to remove the shower spark parts.
3. exchange the bimetal oil temp sensor (if anyone is about convert their 0-360 to an IO-360, shout out: Connecting the bimetal sensor is an easy but not an obvious fix.)
4. And, saved me from replacing the ignition/starter (Bendix) key by flipping the switch upside down. By removing the 3/8"s brass terminal link, the 1963 switch worked perfect without further alterations with the '93 single drive mags. 
5. Some of us had the good fortune to meet Bill at the San Antonio Home Coming circa 2002. Some may recall Bill talking about the 540 they put on an M20E. Bill said the Commanche 250 guys would stop by the factory occasionally. Bill would fly the 540 E with the 250. Bill brought the house down with his tale about getting the dude's 250 going flat out. Then Bill hit it with the 540 E flying away and pulling straight up just to tick the 250 off.  Of course several of us asked if Mooney had any paper on that mod. No such luck. Apparently in those days, Bill, Roy and others were AC hot rodders experimenting to see what worked. Those days are long gone but the memories live on. jt

[JETmachine]

26 minutes ago, carusoam said:

wait... how is this?

Nice going! My MacBookPro won't flip it. Grrrrrr

 

 

[skippyf16]

Looking at an F model with RayJay.  Will it help me climb out of home base (KANK, Salida, CO, 7500'MSL)?

1st airplane purchase.  Any tips/tricks appreciated.

Thanks,

Jason

[Guest]

6 hours ago, JETmachine said:

 

Now that it’s right side up we can inspect it for you!

Baffle tapes appear to be folded back allowing air leaks.

Side baffle tapes at cylinder #1 need securing grommet at overlap.

JPI wires secured to other engine wiring with mag P leads and alternator field wires.

EGT probes outside the normal 2-4” from the flange.

Clarence

 

 

Edited October 19, 2018 by M20Doc

[JETmachine]

56 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Baffle tapes appear to be folded back allowing air leaks.Roger that. Installing the top half of the cowl, I reach in folding the baffle forward. The starboard side dark area indicates it seals. I'll double check the port side.  

Side baffle tapes at cylinder #1 need securing grommet at overlap. Check. 

JPI wires secured to other engine wiring lig mag P leads and alternator field wires.Is the concern induction for JPI  EGT data,  vibration, or abrasion?

EGT probes outside the normal 2-4” from the flange. The factory probe (1) was this distance I used as a guide for the other 3. How much lower EGT temp read should I expect with the probe in this location?

NOTE: The STC for the 200hp was written for a 1964 M20C. When fitting a 201 cowl on a '63 and earlier, a 201 cowl requires a 1" joggle to attach the cowl (see the vertical and horozontal aluminum attach-points). A 201 cowl will otherwise not fit on pre-'64 M20. 

NOTE II: The space between the cowl and #1 exhaust stack is CRITICAL and especially so on departure. Operate full rich at best cooling speed (100mph) and it works. Othewise it will boil cowl paint.

NOTE III: The '93 201 cowl has an aluminum L horizontal brace. I used 1" countersunk washers to spread the load over a larger area of the fiberglass. the L is epoxied and secured with huck torque rivets. 

NOTE IV: The L reinforcing brace will ride on the muffler when the dynafocal mount relaxes causing what feels like flutter (its not flutter). Shape the muffler sleave to prevent contact and iit works perfect after causing the pilot to mess his pants thinking something has high speed flutter(that's not possible but its cold comfort when the AC is shaking from the cowl-muffler contact.) 

Clarence Thank you!!! Your visual inspection is appreciated. Cheers. jt

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tomgo2]

On 10/18/2018 at 1:30 AM, JETmachine said:

Tomgo2,

My 1963 M20C modified is powered by a 1993 IO360A3B6D with 980 TTSN. The mod includes the 1993 M20J cowl and McCulley prop.

Question: Can a RayJay turbo attach to a fuel injected engine? 

Question II: The 190kts on the M20C is impressive given the unmodified Cs don't have the LoPresti aerodynamics of the J-models.

175KT is the shortest bodied M20C, with the 1/4" J windshield, Cowl, one-piece belly-pan, wing-tips, wing-root mod, and the empenage speed mods causing me to wonder how all the drag reduction would play with the RayJay equiped 200hp power.

We made a two-way pass at sealevel at 55F,  28"mp & "2700rpm on radar at 204mph.

If the RayJay can be installed on a fuel injected LYC, what will that set me back, and how long would the installation take. Where is your shop. We are in the San Francisco area. 

 

 

 

@JETmachine

If this aircraft was modified with a different type of engine, then the current STC won't work unfortunately.  Your installation would be unique and therefore not compatible to the M20C kit we currently have.

To answer your other questions for completeness..

Yes, there are several RAJAY STCs that are for fuel injected engines.

Yes, 190kts is impressive and was achieved using stock cowling back in the 1960s well before loPresti mods.  Admittedly, these numbers are published in a marketing brochure, so I cannot say with certainty you will see those numbers.  You will find most owners stay below FL200.  Those who do go above FL200 probably see really good speed, but probably not 190kts.

If your plane were compatible, I was offering the overhauled kit plus installation for $20K.  The authorized service center is based in Spring Branch, TX called Fisher Aviation.

Regards,

Tom 

[tomgo2]

17 hours ago, skippyf16 said:

Looking at an F model with RayJay.  Will it help me climb out of home base (KANK, Salida, CO, 7500'MSL)?

1st airplane purchase.  Any tips/tricks appreciated.

Thanks,

Jason

@skippyf16,

You will absolutely LOVE the Mooney with the RAJAY System.  Taking off with a turbo out of a high DA airport is night and day vs a normally aspirated airplane.  Other airplanes will have to leave with barely enough fuel onboard and take off early morning or late evening to avoid the heat.  You will be able to take off any time of day with more fuel on board. 

@carusoam had some really good recommendations on a recent thread regarding what to look for.  I will try and summarize and add a few things below:

1. Find out how much time is on the turbo.  The recommended overhaul time is 1000 hours.  They can go much longer than that if they are used frequently and no oil leaks.

2. Find out how long the v-band exhaust clamps have been on the airplane.  RAJAY's exhaust clamps do not have an AD but the FAA recommends changing them every 500 hours.

3. Have your Mechanic pressurized the system and look for leaks in the ducting and valves.  Any leaks have a big impact on MP at altitude.

4. Check the exhaust condition including the waste gate.  Both are exposed to high temps and wear over time.  Waste gate should close completely and freely using the vernier control cable inside the cabin. No light should shine through when closed.

5. You could also perform the oil flow check shown in the Owner's Manual to ensure check valves and scavenge pump is working correctly.

The good news is RAJAY has all the parts you need to keep it flying and tuned up to fly those high altitudes. Buy with confidence knowing that RAJAY will support your part needs.

Regards,

Tom

[Mcstealth]

On 10/18/2018 at 4:58 PM, skippyf16 said:

Looking at an F model with RayJay.  Will it help me climb out of home base (KANK, Salida, CO, 7500'MSL)?

1st airplane purchase.  Any tips/tricks appreciated.

Thanks,

Jason

Jason, welcome to the forum. 

Please introduce yourself on the main page. Tell us your history.

good luck with your purchase. 

David

[flyinjake]

On 10/18/2018 at 2:58 PM, skippyf16 said:

Looking at an F model with RayJay.  Will it help me climb out of home base (KANK, Salida, CO, 7500'MSL)?

1st airplane purchase.  Any tips/tricks appreciated.

Thanks,

Jason

Did you end up buying a turbo Mooney? How does it do in the rockies?

[carusoam]

3 minutes ago, flyinjake said:

Did you end up buying a turbo Mooney? How does it do in the rockies?

Welcome aboard Jake!

There are plenty of people that have…

Skippy hasn’t checked in lately…

Got any questions?

Best regards,

-a-