Marina airport crash / fatality

[aviatoreb]

8 minutes ago, PTK said:

I spray windex on them! Works like a charm on everything inside and out! It’s the miracle stuff in a bottle! Does a great job on the plexi too!

 

I love that guy!

Its Greek!

[Piloto]

58 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

yeah, WD40 attracts dirt. Creates a problem where there wasnt one. Latch pins fouling up with greasy dirt.  Also, i dont see how you spray that stuff and keep it out of the carpet.  I could see some triflow on the latch pins themselves where they slide in the seat, but not the rails themselves.

If dirt gets into a hole how it will come out with no lubricant in it? Dirt does not stick to WD-40 like oil or LPS. I have used it in the marine and aviation environment for over 40 years with excellent results. Just try it, for $5 a can is worth the trial.

Some suggested Mouse Milk but I am against animal cruelty after I learned how it is produced.

José

Edited April 3, 2018 by Piloto

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, PTK said:

I spray windex on them regularly. In fact it works like a charm on everything inside the plane and out. It’s the miracle stuff in a bottle and not just for skin warts! Does a great job on the plexi too!

 

I’m glad someone is trying to clean this thread.  All this talk of dirty holes, worn pins and different lubricants had me wondering.

Clarence

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, jetdriven said:

yeah, WD40 attracts dirt. Creates a problem where there wasnt one. Latch pins fouling up with greasy dirt.  Also, i dont see how you spray that stuff and keep it out of the carpet.  I could see some triflow on the latch pins themselves where they slide in the seat, but not the rails themselves.

Would silicone spray lubricant be kosher?  The selling point is that it doesn't attract dirt like grease/oil does...

[Yetti]

If I had this problem (I don't since I could probably fly the plane from the back seat)  I would make a 2 part clamp with a wedge.  Pull the top and you could slide it aft.  If the seat rolled back is would drive the wedge up into the top part and stop the seat.

[kmyfm20s]

I haven't seen a lube yet that doesn't attract dirt. I've sprayed all the lubes listed above on the bumper of my Jeep and have never seen one look better than the other.

[bonal]

I'm sorry but first some thoughts and prayers to those left behind.  I have a pretty good sense of humor but were talking about (jokingly) Windex and such when one of our fellow Mooney pilots ended up in a smoking hole. 

Just seems a bit inconsiderate

[Piloto]

11 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

Would silicone spray lubricant be kosher?  The selling point is that it doesn't attract dirt like grease/oil does...

Silicon WD-40 https://www.webstaurantstore.com/wd-40-300012-specialist-11-oz-water-resistant-silicone-lubricant-spray-with-smart-straw/999300011.html?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping HP&utm_term=1100404859972&utm_content=Janitorial

José

[Bob_Belville]

59 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

I love that guy!

Its Greek!

Everything started with the Greeks.

[cliffy]

If the seats are looked at every annual as they are supposed to be and the pilot checks the security of the seat every time he sits down the damn seat would never be a problem folks!

Its only from lake of attention to proper techniques that causes these seats to slide.

We had a kid a few years ago in a Kodiak turboprop takeoff loaded to the gills and had his seat slide aft and he wound up in a ditch. Airplane totaled, no one hurt too bad. All because he didn't check his seat after he adjusted it. 

Just check the damn seat every time and you won't have a problem. No mickey mouse fixes needed!

[aviatoreb]

1 minute ago, cliffy said:

If the seats are looked at every annual as they are supposed to be and the pilot checks the security of the seat every time he sits down the damn seat would never be a problem folks!

Its only from lake of attention to proper techniques that causes these seats to slide.

We had a kid a few years ago in a Kodiak turboprop takeoff loaded to the gills and had his seat slide aft and he wound up in a ditch. Airplane totaled, no one hurt too bad. All because he didn't check his seat after he adjusted it. 

Just check the damn seat every time and you won't have a problem. No mickey mouse fixes needed!

I don't agree with your philosophy.  If everything is check and working as it should then nothing would ever go wrong.  Engines would never fail.  Pilots would never make mistakes.  Seats would never sleep.  Electronics would never fail.  Everything would be fail safe.

And yet - shit happens.

So yes, do all the checking... AND build in a fail safe backup to the failure mode - esp when it is stupid easy, like a block of wood, or an extra pin to put in the seat behind your seat like someone posted.  Why not?

Understand the failure modes of your machine and address them one by one as much as possible.   Sometimes that means a backup - e.g. a second attitude indicator.  Sometimes that means a certain kind of training for "just in case that happens" (e.g. in a twin you train single engine ops), or in a single for me I know a failure in cruise at night would be a bummer so I skip that mode of flight - night flying SE.  And I tested that I can fly my airplane with the seat slipped.  (I had an extra pin hole added to my seat rail since I am tall, so there is not much extra space between slipped all the way back and my normal comfortable position anyway). 

[DaV8or]

1 hour ago, cliffy said:

Its only from lake of attention to proper techniques that causes these seats to slide.

Kind of like the lack of attention when you're typing! 

[cliffy]

Damn auto-correct!

Yes stuff happens but my commentary was limited to these seat rails and seats, NOT the entire airplane. 

SPECIFICALLY to these seats and rails IF they are maintained as required they won't slip.  If by design, they they would slip, every NEW airplane would have seats slipping even before maintenance was ever needed. If the design was so bad from new, that extra mickey mouse add-ons were needed, would one not think that the manufacturer and the feds would be involved?  Maintenance was so bad in Cessnas that the Feds got involved with their seat rail AD and we have the same rails. There too, if the correct maintenance is done (the AD) the seats don't slide. If the pilots check to see that the seat is properly latched, the seats don't slide. 

BTW, and I know its picky but, if you add something by hard mount to a certified airplane it is classified as an "alteration" to the certified design and needs to be logged as such by an A&P. I know, picky picky but its the way the rules are written. If its not hard mounted then things are hunky-dory. 

[bradp]

Just devise a pulley system attached to the yoke so that’s if the seat slips back the yoke pulls forward just enough to not stall. 

 

[RocketAviator]

On 3/30/2018 at 1:38 PM, DonMuncy said:

I decided to build and install the 1 1/2 inch rudder extensions on my plane. After removing the seats and crawling down there, I discovered it already has them installed. Mooneys apparently just weren't built for people with legs as short as mine. I fly with the seat in the front holes and I'm right up next to the yoke.

In any event, does anyone have a set of the 3 inch extensions at a price that would entice me to avoid the work of building my own?

 

I do Don

[DonMuncy]

Just now, RocketAviator said:

I do Don

Geez. A couple of days ago, I probably would have been negotiating a price. However, being impatient like I am, when I didn't hear anything the next day, I set on a course to have my hangar elf build me a set. He finished building them today. 

Maybe someone else will jump in.

Thanks anyway.

[MyNameIsNobody]

Cliff, I agree 100%.  There are certain things I ALWAYS do before I fly.  I visually inspect and sump the tanks.  I check the oil.  I check that flight controls are free and correct.  I check both mags.  I push for and aft on my seat HARD to ensure the pins are in the rail holes.  Stuff that will kill you if it is not right.  The idea of not trusting my seat and making something block it from going aft is back assward to me.  You all knock yourself out.  I will keep inspecting to ensure they are in good shape and rocking hard fore and aft when I slide into position.

[steingar]

The real problem with parts like these is their failure is very gradual.  It is very difficult to see gradual wear in something you look at all the time.  Remember, every seat that has failed was inspected every year.  

 

Can we even get new ones if ours are worn?

[DaV8or]

1 hour ago, steingar said:

The real problem with parts like these is their failure is very gradual.  It is very difficult to see gradual wear in something you look at all the time.  Remember, every seat that has failed was inspected every year.  

 

Can we even get new ones if ours are worn?

Yes, I believe so, but it is a very expensive repair as the rails are riveted on with a gazillion rivets. If we had a different kind of FAA, people could devise a better repair. Instead of replacing the rails, one could drill the holes out oversized and then press in steel bushings that have the correct size hole in them. It would be easier, so cheaper and the steel bushings would likely never wear out.

[yvesg]

1 hour ago, steingar said:

The real problem with parts like these is their failure is very gradual.  It is very difficult to see gradual wear in something you look at all the time.  Remember, every seat that has failed was inspected every year.  

 

Can we even get new ones if ours are worn?

I had the pilot side rails replaced last annual. From memory it was $276 USD each. After my mechanic’s markup, transport and currency exchange it ended up around $500 each CDN.

Yves

[MARZ]

20 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

Hey I piped up and offer a block of wood to solve the problem - what can be simpler than a block of wood?!

my overstuffed flight bag????

[ArtVandelay]

my overstuffed flight bag????

As long as there is nothing fragile in your flight bag, like an extra pair of headsets or sunglasses that could get crushed.

[thinwing]

Or a full porta potty 

[Browncbr1]

Big coincidental event today.   I took my F up for its minimum weekly workout for some steep turns, slow flight, stalls etc.    checking security of my seat rails is always before starting engine.  It was secure.  I took off and headed out of the airspace, set up for cruise and went into a steep turn.   Halfway through the first steep turn, my seat slid back about a half notch.   I re-secured the seat and thanked the Lord that it didn’t happen on takeoff.   I flew around for 30 or 40 more minutes, then decided to move the seat one more notch forward because I thought it would be possible that my usual notch could have something in it that wasn’t letting the pin fully seat in the hole.  After landing, I moved the seat and found a small piece of gravel in the hole.     Check the pin holes are clear guys!

[jetdriven]

There are two holes per station though. Does holding one pin up hold the other too ?