IFR training

[donkaye]

16 hours ago, Dream to fly said:

Started IFR training and I am realizing I need another pot of gold or a bigger hole in my head.  Does anyone fly IFR without autopilot?   I am losing my mind there must be fifty or sixty things going on in the cockpit that I have to track and do and whatever.  I am thinking two auto pilots 3 co pilots and a stewardess to bring me several drinks during this nightmare...

You just need a good overview of the process.  The IR can be broken into 3 phases:  1. Attitude flying.  2. Basic building blocks (VOR usage, tracking courses, DME arcs, Holding).  3. Approaches and Communications (putting it all together).

Within a given amount of time in instrument flying a certain number of things must be accomplished.  The sooner they are accomplished the more time is available for other unexpected situations.

The mind is such that it can be saturated if too much is expected of it.  When this happens, it's possible that you will not even know your name if it is called out.  A good instrument pilot has enough brain power available to manage all information coming at them.  This takes practice.

A good instructor will be psychologically smart enough to load you down to the limit of your brain capacity---but no more.  This takes experience on their part.  So, initially the training can be a little overwhelming because you are on the brink of breaking down emotionally.  It's like a "boot camp"  where you get stronger as your mind is stretched.   You will learn to do things quickly and efficiently.

Somewhere in phase 3 it will all come together for you.  As an instructor, it is clear when that happens and is one of the great satisfactions of giving instrument training.

[Dream to fly]

You just need a good overview of the process.  The IR can be broken into 3 phases:  1. Attitude flying.  2. Basic building blocks (VOR usage, tracking courses, DME arcs, Holding).  3. Approaches and Communications (putting it all together).
Within a given amount of time in instrument flying a certain number of things must be accomplished.  The sooner they are accomplished the more time is available for other unexpected situations.
The mind is such that it can be saturated if too much is expected of it.  When this happens, it's possible that you will not even know your name if it is called out.  A good instrument pilot has enough brain power available to manage all information coming at them.  This takes practice.
A good instructor will be psychologically smart enough to load you down to the limit of your brain capacity---but no more.  This takes experience on their part.  So, initially the training can be a little overwhelming because you are on the brink of breaking down emotionally.  It's like a "boot camp"  where you get stronger as your mind is stretched.   You will learn to do things quickly and efficiently.
Somewhere in phase 3 it will all come together for you.  As an instructor, it is clear when that happens and is one of the great satisfactions of giving instrument training.

Then I better find a better instructor. Right now in ND I'm limited to who I have to chose from. I'm doing sportys IFR DVDs and red bird simulation.

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[Mooneymite]

14 minutes ago, donkaye said:

...The mind is such that it can be saturated if too much is expected of it. ...

As is often demonstrated by the seasoned "elderly" airline pilot's, "Huh?  Was that for us".  

[Ron McBride]

I did my instrument in my 69F.  Autopilot was not used. You need a good instructor, one that knows your radios. I had recently installed my 430W and knew almost as much about it as the instructor, I had the wrong instructor.   ILS, Loc and vor approaches worked out well, I was familiar with that equipment, the GPS though, not to well, I eventually learned it.  Flying IFR is all mental, it takes time to become proficient mentally, especially after work and home.   You can do it.

[thinwing]

17 hours ago, Dream to fly said:

gonna have to buy an autopilot system... 

If it makes you feel any better...part 135 typically mandates two pilots and a functioning autopilot.There is a reason multi thousand hour pilots have these requirements.A failed autopilot is an emergency just like if your copilot keeled over dead in the right seat.Single pilot IFR in actual IMC frontal conditions without a copilot or autopilot is best done by 20 something military macho types that think they are invincible.As you pass age sixty...it's not so fun and doesn't get any easier as you age.But with age and experience  ,you bring something else to the table,the simple wisdom of having seen that before.

[donkaye]

1 hour ago, Mooneymite said:

As is often demonstrated by the seasoned "elderly" airline pilot's, "Huh?  Was that for us".  

One of the nice things about the GMA 35c and other audio panels that have recording storage for immediate playback.  it gets used more the older we get.

[Danb]

2 hours ago, donkaye said:

You just need a good overview of the process.  The IR can be broken into 3 phases:  1. Attitude flying.  2. Basic building blocks (VOR usage, tracking courses, DME arcs, Holding).  3. Approaches and Communications (putting it all together).

Within a given amount of time in instrument flying a certain number of things must be accomplished.  The sooner they are accomplished the more time is available for other unexpected situations.

The mind is such that it can be saturated if too much is expected of it.  When this happens, it's possible that you will not even know your name if it is called out.  A good instrument pilot has enough brain power available to manage all information coming at them.  This takes practice.

A good instructor will be psychologically smart enough to load you down to the limit of your brain capacity---but no more.  

I went to Recurrent Training Center three straight years a couple decades ago, three day program each year. Each year after day one I was torn down, saturated, bewildered... I was ready to quit flying, on day two they started to put me back together and at the end of day three I was extremely sharp and confident but not overly. I don't know if that's the way it's done now, many pilots would give up, it was a commercial program mostly for turbo prop jocks. Our brain especially when young can handle quite a bit.

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, Dream to fly said:

Then I better find a better instructor. Right now in ND I'm limited to who I have to chose from. I'm doing sportys IFR DVDs and red bird simulation.

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk
 

Not everyone learns best through verbal instruction.  Some prefer written instruction, some prefer discussion, some prefer visual, etc.  You're paying an instructor to give you instruction, but he may not know what works best for you unless you know what works best for you.

I've done a lot of teaching with medical students, and the vast majority of students will say they learn best through practical experience, but it then takes a couple weeks of watching them to figure out they learn better a different way.

[flyboy0681]

One thing not mentioned here is flying through updrafts where the A/P should be disengaged. That is the worst condition for flying IMC, extreme bumpiness and hand flying. Down here in FLA I get that more often than you may think.

[DXB]

7 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

You've got a good process there.  Not to nitpick (well I am), but the scan you should return to is the AI, not heading and altitude.  If you're attitude is steady, your heading and altitude will change slowly enough they can be scanned every few turns.

Somewhere I saw Rod Machado say you shouldn't focus on any one instrument most of the time, but there are times it should be the AI.

I don’t feel nitpicked at all- in this domain I can use all the guidance I can get.  What do others think?

[Andy95W]

11 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

You've got a good process there.  Not to nitpick (well I am), but the scan you should return to is the AI, not heading and altitude.  If you're attitude is steady, your heading and altitude will change slowly enough they can be scanned every few turns.

Somewhere I saw Rod Machado say you shouldn't focus on any one instrument most of the time, but there are times it should be the AI.

Returning to the AI will definitely keep you from departing controlled flight.  

Checking the altimeter and heading indicator will keep you from drifting off heading and altitude so that you don't bust your Instrument checkride.  The AI just isn't precise enough to fly within the PTS (ACS?). That's why they're primary for heading and altitude, not the AI.

[Candy man]

I’m also working on my IFR and I agree it’s really hard. I’m about halfway through and the approach plates are starting to look like English instead of Chinese. My question is, I never thought I was dumb until I started taking practice tests for the written. Now I think I may be really dumb. I used the King Schools, and Gold method. Advice?

[Marauder]

I used the King tapes when John & Martha actually looked young. I found taking multiple tests helped drone in the answers. When I got an answer wrong I went back to the tapes to those sections that pertained to it and/or looked up additional information from others sources like the AIM.

[kortopates]

25 minutes ago, Candy man said:

I’m also working on my IFR and I agree it’s really hard. I’m about halfway through and the approach plates are starting to look like English instead of Chinese. My question is, I never thought I was dumb until I started taking practice tests for the written. Now I think I may be really dumb. I used the King Schools, and Gold method. Advice?

Keep in mind the King Schools videos and the like are concentrated directly on questions on the exam. If after a practice exam you find your understanding of a specific area is lacking what you do next may be depend heavily on what kind of learner you are or what works most effectively for you. In addition to reviewing the video on that topic again, many of us would be better served by reading about the topic in detail as covered by the excellent free FAA bibles for the IR. These are the Instrument Procedures Handbook (IPH) and the Instrument Flying Handbook (IFH). These and all FAA handbooks are available for free download at https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/  So I would encourage you to review any area you might need further understanding in the appropriate section of the either of these two handbooks. They should fill the any gaps. 

However, I am of the opinion every instrument pilot should have a hardcopy of these two vital handbooks. When I learned to fly and get my instrument rating the FAA didn't have anything like these and you had to find an independent author to get this stuff. But now days the FAA has commissioned these very excellent handbooks that cover everything you need.

Edited January 26, 2018 by kortopates

[Oldguy]

2 minutes ago, Marauder said:

I used the King tapes when John & Martha actually looked young. I found taking multiple tests helped drone in the answers. When I got an answer wrong I went back to the tapes to those sections that pertained to it and/or looked up additional information from others sources like the AIM.

I think the giveaway there is the word "tapes"!

But I also used John and Martha's curriculum for my IR and used the same method Marauder described. I was fortunate to have another pilot friend working on it at the same time. Not that I am competitive, but knowing my friend would be taking the same test about the same time I was helped drive me a bit. We also took time to quiz each other and both did well on the written. You can do this.

[RLCarter]

Practice are great but you will generally score 10 pts lower on the actual test so keep that in mind, also the FAA is notorious for wording what looks like the same question but with different answers 

[flyboy0681]

I did my IR in my mid-50's, which made it that more difficult for the flying and written. For the written I used the King online videos as well as the Gleim book. A studied for at least 6 months, resetting the videos when I got to the last one and going through them again at least three times, and when I finished the Gleim book I read it again cover to cover. I found many online sites where I could take sample tests, I also bought a used Sporty's E6B calculator and by the time I took the actual test my fingers were dancing along the keypad . In the end I got two questions wrong (both on icing) on the actual exam. Also, I read so many test questions that I saw a pattern develop, one of them is that one question could be eliminated immediately,  they usually contain the words "always" and "every time". Since there are usually exceptions to everything, the questions with those words typically can be eliminated.

Study, study study.

 

[gsxrpilot]

I always concentrate first on passing the exam. I don't care if I just memorize answers. Just pass the damn thing...

Then the time I spend with my CFII and practice after the check ride, for example shooting approaches to maintain currency with a fellow pilot in VFR conditions while under the hood...  all serves to build real world skills to the point where I'm actually a halfway competent instrument pilot.

But the written... just pass the damn thing any way you can.

I like Dauntless for practice questions/tests.

 

[Marauder]

37 minutes ago, Oldguy said:

I think the giveaway there is the word "tapes"!

But I also used John and Martha's curriculum for my IR and used the same method Marauder described. I was fortunate to have another pilot friend working on it at the same time. Not that I am competitive, but knowing my friend would be taking the same test about the same time I was helped drive me a bit. We also took time to quiz each other and both did well on the written. You can do this.

I got a 100% on the written but I studied like a crazy man since I heard that if you scored high, the local DPE wouldn't grill you like Philly Cheesesteak if you did well on it.

[RLCarter]

I agree with @gsxrpilot pass the written the best you can, and hopefully the dead spots will be filled in by the practical, Wasn’t my CFII but had one tell me anything over a 70 was wasted, Seven Oh and go was his motto 

[flyboy0681]

40 minutes ago, RLCarter said:

I agree with @gsxrpilot pass the written the best you can, and hopefully the dead spots will be filled in by the practical, Wasn’t my CFII but had one tell me anything over a 70 was wasted, Seven Oh and go was his motto 

Not so sure about that approach since the DPE will need to go over all of the sections that were missed. Couple that with the basic oral portion and that makes for a really sweaty three to four hours of sit down time with the man (or woman). My DPE looked at the score and immediately moved on to the oral, which took a little over two hours.

[xcrmckenna]

I’m slowly making a dent. And what is this “tape” you were speaking of????





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[gsxrpilot]

1 hour ago, flyboy0681 said:

Not so sure about that approach since the DPE will need to go over all of the sections that were missed. Couple that with the basic oral portion and that makes for a really sweaty three to four hours of sit down time with the man (or woman). My DPE looked at the score and immediately moved on to the oral, which took a little over two hours.

I followed @RLCarter's approach and it worked well. The score sheet only shows general sections, not specific questions missed. My DPE asked me questions in the oral from all sections anyway. But I thought the oral was way easier than the written anyway.  Unless you missed all the questions in one section, the DPE isn't going to focus anymore on one thing than any other.

Just my $0.02

[Dream to fly]

3 hours ago, Marauder said:

I got a 100% on the written but I studied like a crazy man since I heard that if you scored high, the local DPE wouldn't grill you like Philly Cheesesteak if you did well on it.

Wanna take mine?

 

[kortopates]

4 hours ago, Marauder said:

I got a 100% on the written but I studied like a crazy man since I heard that if you scored high, the local DPE wouldn't grill you like Philly Cheesesteak if you did well on it.

Awesome! I didn't get a 100% the first time for my IR, it was a 96 or 98 - long ago. But I did get a 100% the second time when I took for my CFII.