IFR training

[Dream to fly]

Started IFR training and I am realizing I need another pot of gold or a bigger hole in my head.  Does anyone fly IFR without autopilot?   I am losing my mind there must be fifty or sixty things going on in the cockpit that I have to track and do and whatever.  I am thinking two auto pilots 3 co pilots and a stewardess to bring me several drinks during this nightmare...

[Mooneymite]

Well, it depends.

Auto-pilots can fly IFR without much training.

Pilots with an IFR rating can fly steam, glass, or partial panel, but need a lot of training/practice/proficiency.

Stewardesses are distractions which require the engagement of the autopilot.

[peevee]

I did, when I trained. I wouldn't now. Too lazy. You'll get there. Your scan will get faster and you'll have more time for other tasks.

[Dream to fly]

gonna have to buy an autopilot system... 

[kortopates]

They don't refer to it as the hardest rating to get for nothing! It just takes time and although IFR training with an AP is very valuable its even more critical to have the skills when the autopilot fails or becomes inop from a vacuum failure. But don't worry, before you're done you'll even be able to fly it with your Attitude and DG covered without the AP!

[jaylw314]

18 minutes ago, Dream to fly said:

Started IFR training and I am realizing I need another pot of gold or a bigger hole in my head.  Does anyone fly IFR without autopilot?   I am losing my mind there must be fifty or sixty things going on in the cockpit that I have to track and do and whatever.  I am thinking two auto pilots 3 co pilots and a stewardess to bring me several drinks during this nightmare...

Headaches are a normal part of IFR training.  The sheer amount of focus required would put me on the couch for a few hours after every flight.  It does, of course, become easier with practice.

I have an autopilot but I almost never used it in training.  In retrospect, I wish I had made a point of using it more often, because now I have difficulty including it in my IFR workflow.  I frequently find that with the autopilot on enroute, in my pre-approach workflow, I'll do my approach briefing, set the radios, talk to ATC, set the altimeter, do my IF checks, roll onto the final approach course and then realize I forgot to press the APR button on the autopilot. 

In practice, safety statistics suggest we should be using autopilot about two-thirds of the time, and hand flying one-third of the time.  I think I successfully done an autopilot approach twice so far, so I have a long way to go there...

Anyway, my suggestion is to avoid using the autopilot routinely during training, but do make a point of using it for proscribed times during training.

[RLCarter]

Got my IR in a 172 woth no A/P and steam gauges. 1st 10 or so hours your a little busy (it's all new), next 10 you settle in at it starts coming together, the last half is honing your skills and building time

[carusoam]

Stuff you will probably recognize...

1) training is expensive...

2) of course, you have to be able to do it without an AP... and without half the instruments in the panel...

2a) expecting failures is part of the training.  

3) Training gets more challenging the further you go along.  Various types of approaches, partial panel and actual IMC.

3a) you get lots of special cases.

4) The challenge culminates with the final Check ride.  Where you demonstrate all you know, all in one day...

5) When you get there, you Have all the knowledge and the skill, and you will pass.

6) If you don't pass the Check ride... you study up, practice the part you need to improve and then make it happen.

7) Once you pass, you are free to travel the country in IMC....

8) Realistically you set your own limitations, how much IMC you want to endure without an AP.

9) Getting your PPL is similar to taking a class in high School, with a lab thrown in.

10) Adding the IR is more like a college level class, with a college lab thrown in.  Like HS, just more info, with a faster delivery.

11) One Difference... You never got so much usable real-life information from any one class in HS or college.

12) If it has been 30 years since you’ve been in school...  YOU ARE NOT ALONE.

13) In the end, real life IFR, may not have a lot of approaches in IMC used, unless you want to...

14) one of the coolest things about having the rating is the ability to safely climb or descend through a small amount of a low cloud layer.

15) one more thing... if you like multitasking, flying your own plane, in IMC, without an AP, partial panel, is the extreme definition of multitasking.

Think positive thoughts. You can do it...

Ask more questions...

Discuss your experiences often...

Get to the next level, one flight at a time...

Let the MS community help you get through the tough parts. There will be plenty of tough parts to match the support you can get.

Positive thoughts of a PP-IR... not a CFI ...

My Experience... Did a compressed 10day course that was extended a couple of days, Somewhere near the age of 44... Using up a lot of vacation days at the end of the year... the school had C172s one had a BK KLN94. No APs were used.... the one procedure I botched up... going too fast in a C172...  couldn't descend fast enough before arriving at the airport.... So many details, every one counts.

Best regards,

-a-

[DXB]

I'm about 15 hours into it now - not sure if it's catching on yet or not.   Most useful piece of advice so far (from someone on here -sorry I forget who) has been to divide up multi step tasks so you are always continuing your scan between the pieces.  E.g. tune 1st two numbers of the frequency, check heading and altitude, then tune last two numbers, check heading and altitude,  flip frequency, heading and altitude, check in with ATC,  heading altitude...etc. Simultaneous aviating  and other tasks are starting to take on a rythmic calmness when it's going well.  It's not always going well yet.

You don't actually have to walk and chew gum simultaneously, just create a system to do each in short packets in close temporal proximity.  

[steingar]

You must learn patience Padwan if you are to learn the ways of the force.  Everyone gets swamped when they first start IFR. Just takes time to get used to it. Yes, lots of folks have learned sans George, and a lot of the older hands probably did it with VORs, DMEs and ADFs if they were lucky.

[Hank]

My CFII would not let me use even the heading bug during training, after noticing that when I moved the bug the nose of the plane followed. As the checkride approached, knowing that I would be tested on it's use and likely using it on my own, it was gradually incorporated and often "failed" at one point or another.

Keep going, it will start making sense, and like when you first started working on your PPL, the lessons will slowly become less taxing.

[Vlakvark]

3 hours ago, Dream to fly said:

Started IFR training and I am realizing I need another pot of gold or a bigger hole in my head.  Does anyone fly IFR without autopilot?   I am losing my mind there must be fifty or sixty things going on in the cockpit that I have to track and do and whatever.  I am thinking two auto pilots 3 co pilots and a stewardess to bring me several drinks during this nightmare...

Hey Hank

I have a M20K that I handfly approaches due to a partialy faulty autopilot. I am also a single engine / multi IFR instructor. Send me a pm any time with questions or help. 

As mention before. This is a tough rating to get. But worth every hour. 

Good luck and enjoy. 

JT

Edited January 25, 2018 by Vlakvark

[Htwjr]

I got my IR last year in my C with no auto pilot and only VOR, ILS and LOC. After an hour or so of training I would be mentally exhausted.  Just stick with it and at some point it will all start to click.  

[midlifeflyer]

Not sure if mentioned. Realize that instrument training is artificial. In the real world, you do not fly an approach to missed, set up the next one, fly that to missed, set up the next one.... That is a training/practice/IPC exercise intended to overwork you and force good staying ahead of the airplane habits.

Real IFR flight is so much more relaxing.

[Chris from PA]

Yes. Flying single pilot in IMC is challenging and you'll learn to prioritize activities with experience. A "6 pack" instrument layout, a modern GPS navigation system, a flight director and an autopilot can all help to reduce your workload. I only have 2 of the 4 so I am somewhat conservative when determining when I'll fly and when I'll sit.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

[cbarry]

Flying speeds commensurate with your various phases of flight can make “staying ahead” of the airplane a lot easier.  This equates to knowing your power settings for each of these phases.  For example, blasting into the approach at cruise speed can leave you hanging off of the tail scrambling to get back in front of the plane.  

Stay with it and congratulations on advancing toward the IFR ticket!

 

[Mooneymite]

21 minutes ago, cbarry said:

Flying speeds commensurate with your various phases of flight can make “staying ahead” of the airplane a lot easier. 

You've never been lost until you've been lost at Mach 3.

— Paul F. Crickmore, Lockheed SR-71: The Secret Missions Exposed,

[gsxrpilot]

Stick with it @Dream to fly, years down the road you'll wonder how you ever got along without the rating, and will realize how the IR makes flying EASIER and much more enjoyable.

[mike_elliott]

13 hours ago, Mooneymite said:

Stewardesses are distractions which require the engagement of the autopilot

and can be magnitudes more expensive

[1964-M20E]

keep with it I got my IR in my E which didn't have any type of AP.  It will be the best thing you do.   Learn without the AP.  I even made a number of IMC flights in my E before I got the F it can be done you just work more during the flight than without the AP.

At times I would tell the instructor or safety pilot "auto pilot on" and they would take the controls so I could do something. 

[Mooneymite]

26 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

and can be magnitudes more expensive

The idea is to engage the autopilot...not get engaged to the stewardess. 

Er.....  we all mean "female flight attendant", right?

The term "Stewardess" has long ago been swept out of the dictionary by the politically correct crowd.  As a matter of fact, "stewardess" has been relegated to a part of the gradation of the adjective "Stupid" as in:  stupid, stupider, stewardess.  Danm good thing it isn't in common use today!

[mike_elliott]

Now that borders sexual harassment, Gus. This could get expensive

[Bob - S50]

Just keep in mind that every pilot the Air Force turned out learned to fly IFR without an autopilot (neither the T37 nor the T38 had one).  And the T37 didn't even have an HSI (and one VOR, one DME, no glideslope).  If they can do it, you can do it.

If just takes time, incremental steps, and patience.  Learn to maintain aircraft control and fly headings.  Trim, trim, trim.  Then how to intercept and track courses.  Trim, trim, trim.  Then how to hold.  Trim, trim, trim.  Then altitude changes.  Then... You get the idea.  You don't have to be able to do it all the first day.

You can do it.

[Dream to fly]

I appreciate the words of encouragement.    I am going to pursue this one step at a time along with running a business, changing equipment, and being married.  I've decided to fire the "flight Attendant"  tonight is step two

[jaylw314]

14 hours ago, DXB said:

I'm about 15 hours into it now - not sure if it's catching on yet or not.   Most useful piece of advice so far (from someone on here -sorry I forget who) has been to divide up multi step tasks so you are always continuing your scan between the pieces.  E.g. tune 1st two numbers of the frequency, check heading and altitude, then tune last two numbers, check heading and altitude,  flip frequency, heading and altitude, check in with ATC,  heading altitude...etc. Simultaneous aviating  and other tasks are starting to take on a rythmic calmness when it's going well.  It's not always going well yet.

You don't actually have to walk and chew gum simultaneously, just create a system to do each in short packets in close temporal proximity.  

You've got a good process there.  Not to nitpick (well I am), but the scan you should return to is the AI, not heading and altitude.  If you're attitude is steady, your heading and altitude will change slowly enough they can be scanned every few turns.

Somewhere I saw Rod Machado say you shouldn't focus on any one instrument most of the time, but there are times it should be the AI.