gear down speed?

[rbridges]

Quote: lahso

Curious - why isn't the airspeed needle sitting at zero? I had a similar situation with mine, and ended up having to replace it.

[rbridges]

Quote: kortopates

Definetly a replaced AS instrument, and not really the correct model. You have an AS intended for faster airplane since both your yellow range and redline should be above the TAS wheel - not within it.  But the regs only say what markings are required (e.g., Vso, flap range, normal range etc) and that they be conspicuously marked so as to be clear and obvious and that is why the proper AS is designed to have the yellow arc and redine above the TAS computer wheel - not in it.

But not a big deal if you're happy, but it would drive me nuts looking at it; especially if my cruise speeds fell below the TAS wheel at altitude which I imagine may be possible since half of the TAS wheel is in the yellow arc - a place I never visit. YMMV. But as long as your satisfied, don't let me convince you otherwise.

[scottfromiowa]

Yes, I agree that the Air Speed indicator is off a 201.  I have photos of my panel showing my airspeed indicator for comparison.  Any difference in arcs from Pilot operating manual?  That is unusual that the airspeed isn't on zero when plane is at rest.  I would like to have an ASI that could be adjusted for true airspeed, but will likely keep mine.

[flight2000]

Quote: kortopates

But not a big deal if you're happy, but it would drive me nuts looking at it; especially if my cruise speeds fell below the TAS wheel at altitude which I imagine may be possible since half of the TAS wheel is in the yellow arc - a place I never visit. YMMV. But as long as your satisfied, don't let me convince you otherwise.

[DaV8or]

Quote: rbridges

 I guess it was changed at some point.  I was pretty sure I was using knots, but you got me doubting myself.

[jelswick]

Agree with Brian on flying in the yellow frequently as I did in cruise in my old Mooney (a '63C) and just slowed out of it if other than light turbulence encountered.  I checked photos of it and it had the TAS wheel with knots on the inside/MPH on the outside and mine like the one questioned on here also had the yellow well in the TAS wheel.  The TAS wheel ended at 175 mph, so the last 15 mph and the red line were above it.  I'd never thought about it flying it like that and it wasn't any issue for me (it did have smaller numbering for the mph between the TAS wheel and the kts on the inner circle, so you could still see very clearly your IAS in mph).

[kortopates]

Quote: flight2000

[Hank]

Here's a shot of my ASI in level cruise at 10,000 msl. It's a 1970 C-model, mph in big numbers and knots in little numbers on the inner ring. I'd have to look close to compare against your chart, but that's not possible while writing a reply.

[kortopates]

Looks like 116 KIAS/133 IAS (mph) which is within 3 kts of what I caluclated above from the MAPA data. But since you have a '70 C , its not an issue for you, nor any Mooney from '69 on since your Vno doesn't start till 175 mph - nice!

[Jerry 5TJ]

Quote: flight2000

M20D = 120 MPH

Curious if anyone caught the one that shouldn't belong up above....

[Jerry 5TJ]

Quote: flight2000

M20D = 120 MPH

Curious if anyone caught the one that shouldn't belong up above....

[rbridges]

Quote: kortopates

Interesting about flying in the yellow arc and you just taught me something about vintage Mooney's I didn't realize. So i looked it up and see it wasn't till 69 when Vno (Max structural cruising) went from 130 KIAS to 152 KIAS. Thus the pre 69 C,E,F birds can easily get into the yellow arc till you get high enough. Curiousity had me put the following table together using reported cruise performance values for WOT & 2500 taken from old MAPA articles (for some representative data). Highlighted are IAS in the yellow arc (for pre 69'), but the C at 7K is just about there too.

ALT

 C

E

KTAS

KIAS

KTAS

KIAS

4.5K

147

137

152

142

7K

144

129

154

138

10K

139

119

146

125

[flight2000]

Quote: jerry-N5911Q

Most of the surviving "D" birds do have retractable gear now, so they should have a gear limit speed.  But when they came out of Kerrville as fixed gear "D" models there was no gear retraction limitation.

[kortopates]

Quote: flight2000

Once converted are they still referred to as D models or did they revert to a C model?  I was always curious about that.

Below is a shot of my stock 67E ASI. Notice the Mooney emblem.  I was at 11,000 feet when the photo was taken so you can see I'm still in the yellow arc barely.  It was taken at an angle, so it looks a little weird since I cropped the original photo.

I'm interested to know what changes to the airframe facilitated the increase as well.

[carusoam]

Vno (1965) vs Vno (1969)

I don't think you are going to find a difference in the airframe to allow for the difference in Vno. 

I believe it was additional flight testing completed for the 1969 models that allows for the difference in Vno.  Same plane different ratings. 

This statement is an opinion based on reading articles when I purchased my 1965 M20C.   It would spend much time in the yellow...Bob Kromer was my favorite author at the time.  He was writing articles for Mapa.  (this could be the likely resource for my statement?)

Best regards,

-a-

[Gone]

I am one of those folks that flies their pre-69 E model in the yellow arc all the time.  I will slow it down when encountering turbulence, but if the air is smooth and the power is there, the advice I have been offered by long time Mooney drivers of these short bodies is to be careful but not let the yellow arc prevent making good use of the airframe's slipperiness.

Even during cruise descents, I have to watch so it does not exceed Vne.  Descents are <500 fpm and the MP is drawn back to 21 inches or less.  Above 10,000' I am already at 20 inches or so anyway.

YMMV.

 

 

[hoot777]

How about flying gear down for maintenance. Does anyone know a recommended speed for the G model. Extension is 120mph I believe. Thanks and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year

[StevenL757]

16 minutes ago, hoot777 said:

How about flying gear down for maintenance. Does anyone know a recommended speed for the G model. Extension is 120mph I believe. Thanks and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year

What does your AFM/POH say?  I would venture to say that if 120mph is your extension speed, that would be your limitation to stiff-leg it to a MX location.  Personally, I would back this off by a few MPH to account for un-forecasted wind gusts…unless you want to replace a gear door or two.

[Hank]

Yep, our Vintage Mooneys only have the one gear speed. I've had to do it like that once, it just takes a little longer.

[A64Pilot]

On 3/29/2011 at 8:58 AM, kortopates said:

 

Quote: flight2000

 

 

 

Once converted are they still referred to as D models or did they revert to a C model?  I was always curious about that.

 

Below is a shot of my stock 67E ASI. Notice the Mooney emblem.  I was at 11,000 feet when the photo was taken so you can see I'm still in the yellow arc barely.  It was taken at an angle, so it looks a little weird since I cropped the original photo.

 

I'm interested to know what changes to the airframe facilitated the increase as well.

 

It should be a modified C, to change models takes often a supplemental data plate, but sometimes a different data plate, but it can’t be a C with a data plate saying it’s a D.

We issued such kits, took one of our airplanes from the 750 HP model to the 1,000 HP model, it did include a new data plate that was to be riveted beside the original. It also requires a new Airworthiness Certificate as it’s a model designation change as well as re-registration as it’s now a different model, but serial number doesn’t change. AD’s etc can get flaky, an AD issued for your old model may likely be required on your airplane even though it’s no longer the original model that the AD is on.

Also the 680 HP to the 750 HP model, both requiring new data plates. We issued many such custom kits

https://thrushaircraft.com/support/technical-publications/Custom Kits/ckag38 FIELD CONVERSION OF S2R-T15 AIRCRAFT TO S2R-T34.pdf

This mod kit is unquestionably a Major installation, yet we got it FAA approved so that an A&P could accomplish it, there are more exceptions to FAA rules than we realize.

[OR75]

the extension speed should be in the specific aircraft POH and placarded 

[Utah20Gflyer]

4 hours ago, hoot777 said:

How about flying gear down for maintenance. Does anyone know a recommended speed for the G model. Extension is 120mph I believe. Thanks and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year

I personally would fly at 100-105 mph indicated.  Reasoning is I don't want to stress the landing gear by pushing things and it will be relatively fuel efficient.   The drag of the landing gear will increase greatly as you speed up.   If I had to take it far I would climb high so 100 indicated would give me a much higher true airspeed.

  I don't know if a recommended cross country gear down speed so it's up to personal interpretation. 

[A64Pilot]

Often times there is no gear down max speed, I believe it’s really a gear door speed. VLE is a Max speed, I don’t think I’d be comfortable flying a max speed continuously myself

Just from looking at them it appears that aircraft with lower doors that the door would exert quite a bit of force in opening direction, and upper gear doors would exert little force at all.  If I’m right if anyone has put lower gear doors on a J-bar airplane I bet it’s a bear getting the gear up, and lowering could be exciting.

[Raymond J1]

On 67F, the limit speed of gear extension is 120 Mph (105 Kts), it's also the maximum speed of flight with gear down (VLE).

Edited December 12, 2022 by Raymond J1

[PeteMc]

Isn't the limiting speed for the movement of the gear?  Didn't think there was a limiting speed when in locked down position.  Though the limiting factor was stress on the motor, though I guess some of the gear doors could rip off (but don't remember that ever being the issue).