M20F is the same as an M20J?

[Dream to fly]

If the F model and the J model are the same frame why don't the instrument panels fit?  I've gotten the bug again to totally upset the apple cart and build my F.  I am in so deep I already know what I got and if I can turn it into a J and build it for top speed then I am looking for donors.  But I am having trouble looking for similarities that would cross.  Or does one have to strip down to the frame and build new?   Just trying to get my head wrapped around it.  My goal is to build a super clean F with speed.  I got my JPI830 and I was going to start with the right side and was going to convert to a J but it looks as thou it won't fit.

[gsxrpilot]

Converting an F to a J doesn't have anything to do with the inside of the plane. A panel is a panel. Make it what you want. Reference exhibit A @Marauder's panel in his F. 

Turning an F into a J is all about the LoPresti speed mods. Check to see what LASAR has available for an F. An F with a J cowl, gap seals, wing tips, spinner, windshield... would be a J.

[gitmo234]

In high school I learned to make F's into B's and that helped me a lot in adulthood. Hope this helps....

[Dream to fly]

21 minutes ago, gitmo234 said:

In high school I learned to make F's into B's and that helped me a lot in adulthood. Hope this helps....

Ah I'm still working on that.  Thanks for the info

[Guest]

If you're looking to increase the performance of your F model, I'd suggest you get one of these.  It did wonders for my E model.

[Dream to fly]

29 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Converting an F to a J doesn't have anything to do with the inside of the plane. A panel is a panel. Make it what you want. Reference exhibit A @Marauder's panel in his F. 

Turning an F into a J is all about the LoPrasti speed mods. Check to see what LASAR has available for an F. An F with a J cowl, gap seals, wing tips, spinner, windshield... would be a J.

OK.  That being said LASAR has a lot of the mods available that will get the cowl stretched.  I'd like to add the circuit breaker panel the J has because I have several not even close to the rest of the panel and would like to keep it all together.  I am removing all the gauges for the engine that I can with the 830.  I am going to redo the fuel gauges and the sending units with new technology that use capacitance readings.  That should clean things up on that side and limit oil tubes and spinning cables.

[Dream to fly]

2 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

If you're looking to increase the performance of your F model, I'd suggest you get one of these.  It did wonders for my E model.

If only!!!  I was going to look into a replacing what I got and sticking a turbo charged Lycoming in it.  There has got to be a way to replace what I got and drop a factory unit in its place. 

[Dream to fly]

was there ever a time that Mooney put fuel gauges on the wings?

[Godfather]

10 minutes ago, Dream to fly said:

OK.  That being said LASAR has a lot of the mods available that will get the cowl stretched.  I'd like to add the circuit breaker panel the J has because I have several not even close to the rest of the panel and would like to keep it all together.  I am removing all the gauges for the engine that I can with the 830.  I am going to redo the fuel gauges and the sending units with new technology that use capacitance readings.  That should clean things up on that side and limit oil tubes and spinning cables.

You need to keep most of your current guages with the 830.  The 900 and 930 allow you to ditch the old stuff. 

[gsxrpilot]

Yep, my M20K has fuel gauges in the wings that can be read from the cockpit in flight.

[Godfather]

2 minutes ago, Dream to fly said:

was there ever a time that Mooney put fuel gauges on the wings?

My Mooney has fuel guages on the wings...I like to roll old school.  I think they are calibrated for ground operations. 

Edited August 15, 2017 by Godfather

[gsxrpilot]

2 minutes ago, Godfather said:

You need to keep most of your current guages with the 830.  The 900 and 930 allow you to ditch the old stuff. 

Yeah, sell that 830 and get a 900. Then ditch ALL your engine instruments and really clean up the panel.

[Marauder]

If the F model and the J model are the same frame why don't the instrument panels fit?  I've gotten the bug again to totally upset the apple cart and build my F.  I am in so deep I already know what I got and if I can turn it into a J and build it for top speed then I am looking for donors.  But I am having trouble looking for similarities that would cross.  Or does one have to strip down to the frame and build new?   Just trying to get my head wrapped around it.  My goal is to build a super clean F with speed.  I got my JPI830 and I was going to start with the right side and was going to convert to a J but it looks as thou it won't fit.

If you want to know what it will take, speak to John Breda on this site. Look for his photo albums. His manual gear F has been completely turned into a J. It is a thing of beauty. But I'm sure it cost a ton to make it happen.


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[Dream to fly]

4 minutes ago, Godfather said:

You need to keep most of your current guages with the 830.  The 900 and 930 allow you to ditch the old stuff. 

I found that out.  The 9 series is STC for Primary.    If I keep the six pack gauges I will make them work.  Right now I have to window wipers for fuel gauges and everything else is a gamble at bet if they are close to accurate.  At 45+ years old I wouldn't expect better.

[Dream to fly]

I wonder if JPI would exchange it.   I just didn't want to monkey with the fuel gauges and deal with senders and fuel bladders.

[Dream to fly]

Here is a snap shot of my portable on my way home with a 10 knot tail wind.  At 75% throttle  I'd like to see these numbers in both directions at the same wind speeds. 

[BRBENNETT]

 There are retrofit kits to go from an F panel to a J type panel   

 When I had my avionics done they took out the old panel and retrofitted with a brand new one like this see attached .  My Mooney M20F is a 1967.   I have also seen some STC's on other panel kits.

[Dream to fly]

5 minutes ago, BRBENNETT said:

 There are retrofit kits to go from an F panel to a J type panel   

 When I had my avionics done they took out the old panel and retrofitted with a brand new one like this see attached .  My Mooney M20F is a 1967.   I have also seen some STC's on other panel kits.

That is what I was thinking to incorporate the lower panel where the switches are and push pull cables are.  That is very close to what I have sketched except I only have three panels and the circuit breakers are angled.  I like it!!!

[Godfather]

1 hour ago, Dream to fly said:

Here is a snap shot of my portable on my way home with a 10 knot tail wind.  At 75% throttle  I'd like to see these numbers in both directions at the same wind speeds. 

175 kts with a 10 knot tailwind...that's one fast F!

[Raptor05121]

1 hour ago, Dream to fly said:

Here is a snap shot of my portable on my way home with a 10 knot tail wind.  At 75% throttle  I'd like to see these numbers in both directions at the same wind speeds. 

You want 175KTAS out of an F model? I think that's a tall order for a N/A IO-360. You would probably need a Rajay turbo-normalization kit and/or an IO-540 to acheive those speeds. Correct me if I am wrong, fellas, but a J model is a 155KTAS airplane. There is no way you'll get 20 knots out of speed mods alone. You simply need more power to overcome the drag. The closer you get to 200KTAS, the costs go up exponentially. See any long-body Mooney, Cessna T210, Bonanza with a 550, or Cirrus SR22.

What's the fascination with 175KTAS? Are you really trying to shave a few minutes off your hops? Do you do long distance flying? Screw the speed mods, get a bladder kit and extend your tanks. In some respects, a fixed-gear Cheroke 6 is faster than most Mooneys when it can bypass a fuel stop.

[Dream to fly]

23 minutes ago, Godfather said:

175 kts with a 10 knot tailwind...that's one fast F!

That is with tailwind and the trip is fun.  Buck a head wind and it sucks.   I'd like to get it to do both.  And yes I know you can't have both but I am sure I can get better and I fully understand that speed costs money and affordability determines top speed. 

[Dream to fly]

Just now, bluehighwayflyer said:

Early Js are 158 or 159 KTAS birds ROP at 2500 RPM and normal cruise altitudes.  160 KTAS if you really want to flog them at 2700 RPM. At least in my experience. 

Jim

Thats GS was with a tailwind at 4500 ft.  2400 RPMs and 25 MAP.    When I cruise at 8000.  no wind assistance and 24/24 which I believe is 65 - 70 percent power the best I can get is 125-130 knots.  Re-rigging made a great improvement and its better but I'd think it should be more.  at those settings I never see 140 or 150 knots.

[Marauder]

 There are retrofit kits to go from an F panel to a J type panel   
 When I had my avionics done they took out the old panel and retrofitted with a brand new one like this see attached .  My Mooney M20F is a 1967.   I have also seen some STC's on other panel kits.

I live for finding other crazy people like me! I just noticed you have a 430 in your panel with the 650. Do they cross feed each other?


Dream... The 1975 and 1976 F panels are 201 style. The 1974 is not. This is my 1975 panel.




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[Dream to fly]

13 minutes ago, Raptor05121 said:

You want 175KTAS out of an F model? I think that's a tall order for a N/A IO-360. You would probably need a Rajay turbo-normalization kit and/or an IO-540 to acheive those speeds. Correct me if I am wrong, fellas, but a J model is a 155KTAS airplane. There is no way you'll get 20 knots out of speed mods alone. You simply need more power to overcome the drag. The closer you get to 200KTAS, the costs go up exponentially. See any long-body Mooney, Cessna T210, Bonanza with a 550, or Cirrus SR22.

What's the fascination with 175KTAS? Are you really trying to shave a few minutes off your hops? Do you do long distance flying? Screw the speed mods, get a bladder kit and extend your tanks. In some respects, a fixed-gear Cheroke 6 is faster than most Mooneys when it can bypass a fuel stop.

I just flew from ND to NY and I plan to fly all over.  I don't like bar hopping or airport hopping.  If I ride or fly its going for distance.  I had stops every four hours and I made it to NY in 10 going with a tail wind and 13 coming home because of weather and a head wind.  Then the last leg was Fargo home on Sunday and I squeaked out of Fargo VFR and could go no higher than 4500 which worked out great and pretty much averaged 200 MPH ground speeds.  It was a quick flight that covered ALOT of ground

[Dream to fly]

4 minutes ago, Marauder said:

 

 

I live for finding other crazy people like me! I just noticed you have a 430 in your panel with the 650. Do they cross feed each other?


Dream... The 1975 and 1976 F panels are 201 style. The 1974 is not. This is my 1975 panel.




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I think yours is the one I got the idea from for separate left and right panels.  My problem is my 1968 has a shorter panel top to bottom  unless I incorporate the push pulls and the switches into the same panel.