It's official I got it back in the air... BUT-

[Yetti]

things are clean and things are dirty in strange way.

[Yetti]

Best I could measure mine was 2 5/8"  center to center on the pins.  Could have been a  1/16 either side.

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Dream to fly said:

Those publications are exactly how I found the leak.  Actually in one of the publications it goes step by step as how to test the servo.  Well mine fails.  Now to clear up some details.  It is leaking from the front but not from the throttle shaft it is coming from the diaphragm seam it appears.  The next point is the thumb wheel must have been re-centered and then leaned again.  If you look closely there are fresh thread marks and the distance between the two set points is more that 2.5in.    So the AP and I will be having a come to Joey meeting.   As for chips falling I did preflight and I did take off its on me.

The threads on the adjustment screw are 10-32 on one end and 10-24 on the other, allowing for very fine adjustments.  By the cotter pin and dirty thread it sure looks like someone was tinkering with it.

It also looks like the safety wire on the end plug for the finger screen is missing, it may be hiding behind the fuel hose?

Clarence

[Dream to fly]

11 hours ago, M20Doc said:

The threads on the adjustment screw are 10-32 on one end and 10-24 on the other, allowing for very fine adjustments.  By the cotter pin and dirty thread it sure looks like someone was tinkering with it.

It also looks like the safety wire on the end plug for the finger screen is missing, it may be hiding behind the fuel hose?

Clarence

Yup!  I just got off the phone with the head of the repair shop.  Now we have a situation of CYA.  

[Shiny moose]

I would have your favorite A&P start from the beginning, no induction leak, no fuel servo leaks, gap plugs, mag points, timing, idle ( bottomed out) and mixture setting( reset to middle with correct measurement) . Looks like someone's been turning screws to compensate for something
Opinion only


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[MyNameIsNobody]

On 5/30/2017 at 2:23 PM, Yetti said:

What annoys me is the people who would not know a #2 phillips if it was sticking out of their ear, are the first to claim some legal or illegal FAA this or that.  Just because it is beyond your abilities does not not mean that other folks do or do not know what they are doing.  Pretty sure that DTF knows that a plane that dies on final and is belching black smoke is not going to fly it again until he can diagnose the issue and fix it.  

Sorry for giving a $%^&...

[Guest]

20 hours ago, Dream to fly said:

Yup!  I just got off the phone with the head of the repair shop.  Now we have a situation of CYA.  

Comparing the picture of Yette's servo to yours the cotter pins in the link are also too small.

Clarence

[Yetti]

and someone's bolt for the mixture cutoff cable is installed different.  It looks like yours is in a straighter line, so I might suggest that mine is wrong.

[MB65E]

I would start with centering the finger nut between the rod ends. Match it like Yetties, and run it. Whoever messed with the cotter pins didn't do any favors for you. 

The adjustment is really fine. I think adjusting it before pulling the servo would be helpful, now that we know that it's been played with. It's going to take several runs. 

-Matt

[Andy95W]

3 hours ago, M20Doc said:

Comparing the picture of Yette's servo to yours the cotter pins in the link are also too small.

Clarence

And the safety wire on the left screw (of the 3) is wrong.

[Dream to fly]

Last night I went to the airport and had a long visit with the airplane.  I needed time to separate my emotions from the reality that this thing is built by man and can be fixed by man.  I understand that this "object" cause its not a plane it can't fly has been hacked and covered up very well.  I have now looked over I think every nut bolt and line that is firewall forward.  There is no question that the servo is screwed and that someone played with the settings pretty sure it happened with this last go around.  The company is not admitting or denying but is willing to adjust the bill and moving forward has given me some leeway as to what they will let me do.

SO I removed the front cowl panel and removed the rubber boot in front of the servo.  made a tin adapter and induced smoke into the intake and found two small traces by the intake runners where the boots are.  tightened loose clamps and poof fixed.  Found another bigger leak where a remote source vacuum had been tied in, and it was not sealing at all because the cable was not adjusted.  Fixed that.  Found the finger screen not safety tied and was loose to cause a drip.  pulled the plane out and fired her up cowls off and after warm up the problem appears.  it is flooding with fuel.  It ran smoother before warm up so I had intake leaks but when the boost pump comes on simulating take off and landing about 90 secs in the engine starts to foul.  Cooled the engine down remove the rear bottom plugs both side and two top plugs both sides all showed soft black deposits.  So I am going with a new (reman) servo.  This servo I have is out of production so reman is all the options I have.  I have made a deal with the AP I trust that I am installing it he can drink coffee, tea, pop whatever but I am doing it he can watch.  It is not rocket science but time and patience.  Good thing I am not a doctor. 

I've decided that this mid time engine is a temporary and when I can afford it I'll build or buy a newer series engine (roller lifters, solid crank).  Maybe remove the type rating and put a turbine in it to really screw with the purists.  I know that I will be forever upside down in this endeavor by the tune of 28K plus (that was all on me) I didn't hire the right people to help inspect the plane and now look at that loss as a college degree.  Sometimes education costs!!!  

Someone here told me flying is a disease, Well I have this disease and it forces me to want to fly.  So for as long as I can legally pass my medicals and climb into a cockpit that is what I am going to do.  I may never get into that pretty Bravo or Acclaim but I will be trailing behind still high and fast enough that the trainer plane I used is still behind me proving that I have advanced.

[Dream to fly]

10 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

And the safety wire on the left screw (of the 3) is wrong.

Wrong that it is there or it is not diagonal? 

[Andy95W]

The safety wire should be trying to tighten the screw, yours looks like it is trying to loosen it.  

Compare the pictures of yours to Yetti's of that left screw safety wire.

[Dream to fly]

Just now, Andy95W said:

The safety wire should be trying to tighten the screw, yours looks like it is trying to loosen it.  

Compare the pictures of yours to Yetti's of that left screw safety wire.

Ah I see!!!!   good catch.  I totally missed that.  Perfect example of being too close to a project.

[cliffy]

Dream to Fly-  Its gratifying to see your change of heart and move in a good direction. I applaud you. Sometimes we hit walls in this airplane business and nothing seems to go right but perseverance pays off in the end. 

Flying is a disease!  I've had it for 60 years! Even 10 years into retirement from professional flying I still dream I'm in the Boeing again. 

I've spent days and weeks trying to fix certain airplanes. Sometimes I just had to go home and regroup. Walk away from the problem and come back another day. Stuff happens. It just does. 

We all profit by our mistakes and hopefully learn from them. I've made lots of them over the years. Just tried not to repeat them.

Built by man- fixed by man is RIGHT ON !

It can be done and you can see it through. Knowledge is everything! 

Everything is easy IF YOU KNOW HOW!

Keep up the good work.

[steingar]

After I recovered my aircraft the mechanic hopped in and we took it for a flight.  Did a big wide circle so he could look back and make certain we weren't trailing anything.

[Andy95W]

2 hours ago, Dream to fly said:

Ah I see!!!!   good catch.  I totally missed that.  Perfect example of being too close to a project.

If the shop that worked on it did that, then it is more ammunition for you. Even if they didn't, they should have caught it, so either way you should point it out to them. 

[Dream to fly]

2 hours ago, cliffy said:

Dream to Fly-  Its gratifying to see your change of heart and move in a good direction. I applaud you. Sometimes we hit walls in this airplane business and nothing seems to go right but perseverance pays off in the end. 

Flying is a disease!  I've had it for 60 years! Even 10 years into retirement from professional flying I still dream I'm in the Boeing again. 

I've spent days and weeks trying to fix certain airplanes. Sometimes I just had to go home and regroup. Walk away from the problem and come back another day. Stuff happens. It just does. 

We all profit by our mistakes and hopefully learn from them. I've made lots of them over the years. Just tried not to repeat them.

Built by man- fixed by man is RIGHT ON !

It can be done and you can see it through. Knowledge is everything! 

Everything is easy IF YOU KNOW HOW!

Keep up the good work.

Thank you.  It just strikes a nerve when I am told I can't do this or can't do that because a law says so.  I grew up with a loving family but never a lot of money. I grew up respecting what I own.  It rips me to spend hard earned money and it be wasted.  As crazy as I am about this dilemma I won't quit, I will make it right and I will fly it.  If others weren't at risk I'd still fly it to the AP now that I know what the engine needs.  As a mechanic by trade I know anything can be fixed it just costs money.  My motto has been and still is printed on my business cards "build it Bigger, better, Faster".   This Saturday if FedEx finds me tomorrow this bird will be airborne again and I will be pushing the limits of every possible situation to see what needs attention.  Otherwise the panel and wiring is next.  When Vanco aviation comes back from his vacation all the panels are getting removed and the inside is getting prepped and re-sprayed.  Then the wife will get with some other copilot companions and decide color and pattern.  The plan is in place just have to work out the wrinkles. 

 

P.S.  This forum has been a great information source and I'd like to thank Yetti, M20Doc, Andy95W and everyone else for posting.  Their pictures and info have helped me get my head wrapped around this issue. 

[Yetti]

4 hours ago, Andy95W said:

And the safety wire on the left screw (of the 3) is wrong.

Good catch.  Amazing what you can find when playing what is wrong with this picture.  What does the third screw do?  ie why would someone not the overhauler be messing with it?

 

[cliffy]

DTF- for those of us who are blessed/cursed with the ability fix things, being told you can't do something because you don't have the license is a real bummer. Unfortunately that's the way the law is written. It can be beat however. Make friends with someone who has the license and let him get used to your capabilities and then he can inspect the work and do the final sign off.  BTW,, if YOU do the work you can/should sign off what your did with your name and then the A&P can/has to come behind and sign off the return to service. Just like in a certified shop using unlicensed mechanics, they sign off what they did and the Inspector comes behind and signs off the return to service. The license holder however needs to be directly accessible to supervise and view your work (in close proximity to you) and not say, 2 states away while you do the work. 

The correct manuals are like gold in a competent persons hands. Gather them up where ever you can. 

I didn't notice in the thread but there are numerous things you can do on your own and sign it off perfectly legal (If you've been trained in the proper way to do them). Lots of info on this forum for that. All contained in "Preventative Maintenance" with no A&P required. Again, its all in the legalities. 

[Dream to fly]

PART 2-  Got up this morning and met the AP at the hanger.  In his hand a nice shiny remanufactured fuel servo.  Pop two side panels and a couple nuts, a few hoses and presto its done. Ummm, No that was the dream.    That cowl sucks to remove I even threatened it with a can opener.   After finally getting the old servo out it was apparent fingers and hands had been into it at some point.  I looked at the new one moved all the controls and everything was fluid like nice and smooth.  Took the old one moved the throttle lever and it had about 1/32 to  1/16 in of lateral movement.  Moved the mixture lever and not only would it bind but it was making grinding noises as it rotated.  Looked at the throat and it was obvious it was fuel washed by the clean river like path at the bottom of the throat.  Installed the new one reassembled everything and it purrs like a kitten.  six to seven turns lean and it runs great. Nothing but money time and sweat and maybe one or two choice words.  Took it up and down the taxi way and finally made her fly.  PLENTY of power no smoke and at 6K pulled the throttle and listened. Nice smooth idle steady tach and no coughing, power set to idle back to full power nice and smooth.  Final approach was simple (except for ND crosswinds) boost pump on or off the pressure changed but not the rpms.  Lean out RPM rise 50 - 75.  give or take a few (mechanical gauge) nothing like the 200+ I was seeing.   

[211º]

Hooray!!!


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[gsxrpilot]

We're gonna have to put @Dream to fly in the hall of fame along with @Raptor05121 for sticking with it and bringing one back from the brink.

Well done!

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, Dream to fly said:

PART 2-  Got up this morning and met the AP at the hanger.  In his hand a nice shiny remanufactured fuel servo.  Pop two side panels and a couple nuts, a few hoses and presto its done. Ummm, No that was the dream.    That cowl sucks to remove I even threatened it with a can opener.   After finally getting the old servo out it was apparent fingers and hands had been into it at some point.  I looked at the new one moved all the controls and everything was fluid like nice and smooth.  Took the old one moved the throttle lever and it had about 1/32 to  1/16 in of lateral movement.  Moved the mixture lever and not only would it bind but it was making grinding noises as it rotated.  Looked at the throat and it was obvious it was fuel washed by the clean river like path at the bottom of the throat.  Installed the new one reassembled everything and it purrs like a kitten.  six to seven turns lean and it runs great. Nothing but money time and sweat and maybe one or two choice words.  Took it up and down the taxi way and finally made her fly.  PLENTY of power no smoke and at 6K pulled the throttle and listened. Nice smooth idle steady tach and no coughing, power set to idle back to full power nice and smooth.  Final approach was simple (except for ND crosswinds) boost pump on or off the pressure changed but not the rpms.  Lean out RPM rise 50 - 75.  give or take a few (mechanical gauge) nothing like the 200+ I was seeing.   

If the 50-75 rise is at idle, it's still too rich.  Closer to 25 would be better, and lower idle speed makes for less float and shorter landings.

Clarence

[Mcstealth]

On May 30, 2017 at 2:31 PM, Yetti said:

Induction leak?

https://dvatp.com/aviation/induction_leak

I'm of the mind that an induction leak would result in a lean mixture.

I am going with a clog somewhere in the line.