Does replacing a battery go in the airframe or engine logbook?

[aajones5]

Me and my CFI can't figure out which one I need to write that in

 

 

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[gsengle]

Just ask yourself, if you took the engine and swapped it to another airframe, does the part stay or go...


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[StevenL757]

52 minutes ago, aajones5 said:

 

Me and my CFI can't figure out which one I need to write that in

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It goes in the airframe log.

Steve

[thinwing]

Airframe

[M20F]

17 hours ago, gsengle said:

Just ask yourself, if you took the engine and swapped it to another airframe, does the part stay or go...


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The best logic.  Almost nothing goes in the engine/prop log books  it is all airframe.  

[1964-M20E]

I was told even accessories like alternator vacuum pump go in air frame.

[Andy95W]

And believe it or not, even the muffler is technically part of the airframe.

[Raptor05121]

42 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

And believe it or not, even the muffler is technically part of the airframe.

I was thinking this to myself last night and it makes sense. The exhaust isn't technically part of the "internal combustion engine" so yeah.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, 1964-M20E said:

I was told even accessories like alternator vacuum pump go in air frame.

While accessories are technically supplied as part of the airframe, my feeling is that if it took tools to remove or install it on the engine, the engine log book should have a record of the maintenance action.

Clarence

[RLCarter]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

While accessories are technically supplied as part of the airframe, my feeling is that if it took tools to remove or install it on the engine, the engine log book should have a record of the maintenance action.

Clarence

Is there really any problem if it's in question to add it to both logs?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, RLCarter said:

Is there really any problem if it's in question to add it to both logs?

In both logs if it effects the engine, more details can't hurt.

Clarence

[gsengle]

In both logs if it effects the engine, more details can't hurt.
Clarence

Clarance, do you do like my A&P and sign off both engine and airframe logbooks separately at annual?


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[Guest]

17 minutes ago, gsengle said:

 

Clarance, do you do like my A&P and sign off both engine and airframe logbooks separately at annual?


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Yes I do.  Details of the annual as it relates to airframe, engine and propeller should be recorded in the appropriate log book.  Most annual inspection checklists have a sections each of these components.

In Canada we have 5 log books to deal with. They are, Journey, airframe, installations mods and AD's, engine and propeller.  Journey and airframe entries are identical and detail everything done to the entire airplane (tags go in airframe section) Mod's log records AD, SB, SI, STC as related to the airframe, engine log records engine related work and has its own AD section relating to the engine, propeller records propeller related work and has its own AD section relating to the propeller.

Clarence

[RobertGary1]

Rule I've always seen is "What does Lycoming ship". Lycoming doesn't ship the exhaust because that is an airframe specific part. But if you replace an injector or fuel servo its something different than Lycoming shipped the engine to you with.

-Robert

[jlunseth]

The better question is why do we have three logs to begin with?  Why not just one?  My prop log has about three entries in it over 15 years.  What's the point?

I don't think the regs require three logs, they just require that maintenance be logged.

[DonMuncy]

53 minutes ago, jlunseth said:

The better question is why do we have three logs to begin with?  Why not just one?  

I think the 3 logs, although not required, arose by tradition because it is likely an engine or prop my be replaced, and the log book for that unit can be disposed of. The goal being to reduce the amount of paperwork an owner has to keep. 

[DXB]

Dang I logged my battery replacement in the wrong place.  I would be a hot mess as an owner without Mooneyspace.

[RobertGary1]

1 hour ago, jlunseth said:

The better question is why do we have three logs to begin with?  Why not just one?  My prop log has about three entries in it over 15 years.  What's the point?

I don't think the regs require three logs, they just require that maintenance be logged.

When I returned my engine to Lycoming as a core they kept that log book and sent me a new zero time book(new engine arrived before I sent the core). I don't think they'd accept the old engine without a log. same with prop. It would be hard to sell the old prop if the logs were integrated. 

My friend who teaches IAs signs the annual only in the airframe and says "this AIRCRAFT has been" instead of "this airframe"," this engine", etc. just logs repairs in each. 

-Robert

[RobertGary1]

Just now, DXB said:

Dang I logged my battery replacement in the wrong place.  I would be a hot mess as an owner without Mooneyspace.

Only if you replace the engine so you'd lose that entry. 

-Robert

[N6758N]

2 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

 

My friend who teaches IAs signs the annual only in the airframe and says "this AIRCRAFT has been" instead of "this airframe"," this engine", etc. just logs repairs in each. 

So he doesn't make a return to service statement after the annual in the engine or prop logs? I don't think that is legal. Per FAR 43.11 

(a) Maintenance record entries. The person approving or disapproving for return to service an aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part after any inspection performed in accordance with part 91, 125, §135.411(a)(1), or §135.419 shall make an entry in the maintenance record of that equipment containing the following information:

 

(1) The type of inspection and a brief description of the extent of the inspection.

(2) The date of the inspection and aircraft total time in service.

(3) The signature, the certificate number, and kind of certificate held by the person approving or disapproving for return to service the aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, component part, or portions thereof.

[gsengle]

The better question is why do we have three logs to begin with?  Why not just one?  My prop log has about three entries in it over 15 years.  What's the point?
I don't think the regs require three logs, they just require that maintenance be logged.

Because the three items can go their separate ways. Log books need to follow...


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[RobertGary1]

40 minutes ago, N6758N said:

So he doesn't make a return to service statement after the annual in the engine or prop logs? I don't think that is legal. Per FAR 43.11 

Doesn't make an annual statement. Can either log inspection for each or annual the "aircraft". Because he's the dean of the A&P school he's always working with the fsdo. 

-Robert

[Andy95W]

5 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

 

My friend who teaches IAs signs the annual only in the airframe and says "this AIRCRAFT has been" instead of "this airframe"," this engine", etc. just logs repairs in each. 

This is also the way that I was taught.  An Aircraft gets an Annual inspection, engines and propellers get 100 hour inspections.

BTW, this ends up causing weird questions at flight schools and for owners and future owners.  Therefore, I log annual inspections for the engine and propeller too.

[RobertGary1]

1 minute ago, Andy95W said:

This is also the way that I was taught.  An Aircraft gets an Annual inspection, engines and propellers get 100 hour inspections.

BTW, this ends up causing weird questions at flight schools and for owners and future owners.  Therefore, I log annual inspections for the engine and propeller too.

Yea, I've heard some FSDO's get upset if you sign an annual for an engine and prop since there is no manufacture guidance for an annual, only 100 hour. But as you stated, it causes confusion. But you can avoid that by only logging "this AIRCRAFT" and just only note repairs and no inspections on the prop, engine book and that covers all.

-Robert

[Andy95W]

When I was working at a flight school, some of the examiners would check the logbooks and question why the engine wasn't signed off for an Annual inspection.  At some point ya gotta pick yer battles...