Chief Differences Between C & D Models and E & F Models

[Shadrach]

  On 3/30/2017 at 11:57 PM, Bob_Belville said:

Fs are great... except compared to Es for TO distance, climb rate, cruise speed...!

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Ha! Climb and Take off roll is weight dependent, same weight same performance.  The E has a 40lb weight advantage. I can make up for that just by weighing in at under 180lbs...

I'll give you the 3kts the Mooney Pilot's Evaluation showed if you think that's significant. (

[TTaylor]

  On 3/30/2017 at 9:42 PM, andymccann said:

The title may say it all... still educating myself on the breed.  I still think I'm looking for an E, but I'd like to learn as much as I can on the unique traits of each model.  For example, they built a lot of C's, but ended production of D's after a fairly brief run.  I kind of wish Gordon Baxter was still around, I remember he was a real champion of Mooney and he'd probably have a lot to say (still).

Thanks.

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There are many threads on the differences.  You will find fans of each model.  It really comes down your mission which model fits that mission best.  Generally the C, D, and E are good as 3 person aircaft.  The E having 20 additional horsepower.  The G and F have room for 4 and just a little more comfortable cabin space.  While you will hear all types of claims about speeds, there is really not that much difference in stock speeds.  As with Lake Wobegon, everyone's Mooney is above average.  I have owned both a C and now an F.  I enjoyed my C, but love the greater all around capability of the F.

[Sean S]

I picked the F for the extra leg room on the back. After I took a test flight with an E owner who was 6" tall and looking behind him in flight I knew I needed the mid body with two teenagers!

[Bob_Belville]

  On 3/31/2017 at 2:34 AM, Shadrach said:

Ha! Climb and Take off roll is weight dependent, same weight same performance.  The E has a 40lb weight advantage. I can make up for that just by weighing in at under 180lbs...

I'll give you the 3kts the Mooney Pilot's Evaluation showed if you think that's significant. (

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I posted the pic to show the OPer the 158 ktas at 9500'. What's your F's cruise at 9-10,000'?

[mooniac15u]

  On 3/31/2017 at 2:24 AM, Shadrach said:

I've alway wondered how they got 5 more inches in back.  Was the rear set in your C ahead of the spar rather than over the spar?

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The rear seats in my D and J seem to be in the same position relative to the spar.  The wing (and therefore the spar) is 5" further back in mid body Mooneys.

From the TCDS:

For M20D, datum is the centerline of the nose gear support bolts and is fuselage station 0.00. The Leading Edge of the wing at wing station 59.25 is 33.00 inches aft of fuselage station 0.00.

For M20J, datum is 5.00 inches aft of the center line of the nose gear support bolts and is fuselage station 0.00. The Leading Edge of the wing at wing station 59.25 is 33.00 inches aft of fuselage station 0.00.

[mooniac15u]

  On 3/31/2017 at 12:56 AM, gsxrpilot said:

Nope, I'm of average height, 5'10".  There might be longer seat rails in the mid bodies since there is another 5" back to the spar. But supposedly the cage dimensions and the seat rail positions (front edges) are exactly the same in all Mooney's from Short to Mid to Long bodies.

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The seat rails and seat positions may well be the same between the short and mid body Mooneys.  I've never tried to measure the actual distances from rudder pedals to seat positions.  What I know is that the bottom of the panel on my D physically prevented me moving my seat up from the rearmost position.  My knees and the panel could not occupy the same space.  In my J I have more clearance for my legs with the seat in the rearmost position and I can even fly it with the seat moved up one notch.  I don't know whether that's because the seat is farther back or the bottom of the panel is higher or the maybe the whole footwell is larger.  Whatever dimensions are different makes a small but noticable difference in legroom for someone of my height.

[Andy95W]

  On 3/31/2017 at 1:36 PM, mooniac15u said:

The rear seats in my D and J seem to be in the same position relative to the spar.  The wing (and therefore the spar) is 5" further back in mid body Mooneys.

From the TCDS:

For M20D, datum is the centerline of the nose gear support bolts and is fuselage station 0.00. The Leading Edge of the wing at wing station 59.25 is 33.00 inches aft of fuselage station 0.00.

For M20J, datum is 5.00 inches aft of the center line of the nose gear support bolts and is fuselage station 0.00. The Leading Edge of the wing at wing station 59.25 is 33.00 inches aft of fuselage station 0.00.

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They added 5" in front of the spar, so to keep the wing leading edge at the same location they had to shift the datum point that same five inches.

Note the wing leading edge in comparison to the forward edge of the pilot's window, as well as the rear edge to the aileron:

 

[MyNameIsNobody]

Model snobbery and envy.  Funny-Strange.  Just love your bird because.  Why the need to slag on other models?  Mirror knows.

[Bob_Belville]

  On 3/31/2017 at 1:58 PM, MyNameIsNobody said:

Model snobbery and envy.  Funny-Strange.  Just love your bird because.  Why the need to slag on other models?  Mirror knows.

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Buy, or rent, a sense of humor.

[Shadrach]

  On 3/31/2017 at 12:02 PM, Bob_Belville said:

I posted the pic to show the OPer the 158 ktas at 9500'. What's your F's cruise at 9-10,000'?

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My F is not modded Bob, so you've got maybe 8 to 10kts on me (Every one of which you've paid good money for). Apples to apples the difference is minuscule, but the E is faster. Perhaps ask Chris where his F cruises for comparison though I don't think he has the power flow.

[Shadrach]

  On 3/31/2017 at 1:42 PM, mooniac15u said:

The seat rails and seat positions may well be the same between the short and mid body Mooneys.  I've never tried to measure the actual distances from rudder pedals to seat positions.  What I know is that the bottom of the panel on my D physically prevented me moving my seat up from the rearmost position.  My knees and the panel could not occupy the same space.  In my J I have more clearance for my legs with the seat in the rearmost position and I can even fly it with the seat moved up one notch.  I don't know whether that's because the seat is farther back or the bottom of the panel is higher or the maybe the whole footwell is larger.  Whatever dimensions are different makes a small but noticable difference in legroom for someone of my height.

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In my F model, the bottom of the panel is part of the steel roll cage. It is the easiest thing to grip when pulling yourself forward in the seat.

[gsxrpilot]

  On 3/31/2017 at 3:13 PM, Shadrach said:

In my F model, the bottom of the panel is part of the steel roll cage. It is the easiest thing to grip when pulling yourself forward in the seat.

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Assuming the steel cage around the panel is the same from C to K and maybe beyond... The panel in most C's (likely D's, E's, etc) have a gold colored strip across the bottom of the panel where switches, breakers, etc are. I wonder if that panel hangs below the cross bar in the steel cage? In my K, the panel has a mandrel bend where the panel wraps around the lower edge of that same cross bar. Maybe that is some of the difference @mooniac15u is reporting.

[Shadrach]

  On 3/31/2017 at 3:25 PM, gsxrpilot said:

Assuming the steel cage around the panel is the same from C to K and maybe beyond... The panel in most C's (likely D's, E's, etc) have a gold colored strip across the bottom of the panel where switches, breakers, etc are. I wonder if that panel hangs below the cross bar in the steel cage? In my K, the panel has a mandrel bend where the panel wraps around the lower edge of that same cross bar. Maybe that is some of the difference @mooniac15u is reporting.

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My F is like your K.

[Hank]

  On 3/31/2017 at 3:25 PM, gsxrpilot said:

Assuming the steel cage around the panel is the same from C to K and maybe beyond... The panel in most C's (likely D's, E's, etc) have a gold colored strip across the bottom of the panel where switches, breakers, etc are. I wonder if that panel hangs below the cross bar in the steel cage? In my K, the panel has a mandrel bend where the panel wraps around the lower edge of that same cross bar. Maybe that is some of the difference @mooniac15u is reporting.

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They stopped that strip at some point, my 1970 C doesn't have one.

[MyNameIsNobody]

  On 3/31/2017 at 2:36 PM, Bob_Belville said:

Buy, or rent, a sense of humor.

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This response very funny and predictable.  Thank you for the laugh.

[Mooneymite]

  On 3/30/2017 at 11:41 PM, Shadrach said:

Oh and let me warn you on behalf of the folks flying behind parallel valve, carburetted O360s that the injected angle valve IO360s are hard to start (they're actually quite easy to start, but this is a favored critic among the carburetted cognoscenti)

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I've never started a Mooney with an IO360.

What I will tell you is that from day one, my C starts reliably hot, or cold using virtually any technique that involves fuel, air and spark.  I haven't a clue why there are so many threads on MS about starting the IO360.  A complete mystery to me.    Does that make me a cognoscenti?  

[Marauder]

  On 3/31/2017 at 3:08 PM, Shadrach said:

My F is not modded Bob, so you've got maybe 8 to 10kts on me (Every one of which you've paid good money for). Apples to apples the difference is minuscule, but the E is faster. Perhaps ask Chris where his F cruises for comparison though I don't think he has the power flow.

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9000' below = 154 KTAS - 150 KTAS depending on power setting, ram door closed.

10,000 to 13,000 = 152 KTAS - 146 KTAS full power, ram door closed.

With the ram open, add about 1 to 2 KTAS to the numbers above.

[HRM]

  On 3/31/2017 at 3:08 PM, Shadrach said:

Apples to apples the difference is minuscule, but the E is faster. Perhaps ask Chris where his F cruises for comparison though I don't think he has the power flow.

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There is also some handling quirkiness between the two (and both apparently are quirky, though I have never flown an F).

Not knowing anything else except anemic Cessgnats and Ercoupes, I have always felt my E flies like a fighter jet.

[M20F]

A E is "Super" which makes you sound like some teenager.  A F is an Executive and fits like a Brioni suite with a nice cigar lighter and a retractable step. 

Do you want to be super or be an Executive is the question. 

[bonal]

I guess that makes us converted D owners Master Rangers

[M20F]

  On 4/1/2017 at 1:22 AM, bonal said:

I guess that makes us converted D owners Master Rangers

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I rest my case....

[bonal]

?

[Hank]

  On 4/1/2017 at 1:22 AM, bonal said:

I guess that makes us converted D owners Master Rangers

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My '70 C is a Ranger. What were they when your D was made? At one point to they were called Chaparral, only the E was a Super 21 once upon a time. "M20 Super 21" is an unusual concatenation, dontcha think?    Sorry, Harley . . . .

[bonal]

I guess it would depend on when the conversion was done

[mooniac15u]

D owners are Master Pilots. Pretty much says it all.