Rigging

Rookie · February 13, 2017

I should have taken a photo! When level flying, should both my both my ailerons stick up higher than the flaps?

Guitarmaster · February 13, 2017

No. they should be even with the flaps. This is assuming the flaps are adjusted correctly. Some shops make use of flap adjustment to solve rigging issues.

Disclaimer: you should use the travel boards to set the rigging.... but,

I would start by centering the yokes and adjusting the ailerons to sit slightly below the wingtips. When you fly, the air will blow them up a little and they should match the tip. After that, look at the relation to the flap. I would then adjust the flap as necessary. After that, if there is a rolling tendency, find what is causing it.

There is a lot of "adjust and fly" time in this process. It took a year of doing this, but I gained 9KTAS through proper rigging!

These airplanes will fly while being WELL out of rig just like a Ford will run on seven cylinders. However, the time and effort to tune (rig) properly will make your machine shine!

This is what mine looked like prior to rigging! https://goo.gl/photos/2qoUtGrKByk23KV4A My flaps were nearly 5 degrees off!

Edited February 13, 2017 by Guitarmaster

Rookie · February 13, 2017

1 hour ago, Guitarmaster said:

No. they should be even with the flaps. This is assuming the flaps are adjusted correctly. Some shops make use of flap adjustment to solve rigging issues.

Disclaimer: you should use the travel boards to set the rigging.... but,

I would start by centering the yokes and adjusting the ailerons to sit slightly below the wingtips. When you fly, the air will blow them up a little and they should match the tip. After that, look at the relation to the flap. I would then adjust the flap as necessary. After that, if there is a rolling tendency, find what is causing it.

There is a lot of "adjust and fly" time in this process. It took a year of doing this, but I gained 9KTAS through proper rigging!

These airplanes will fly while being WELL out of rig just like a Ford will run on seven cylinders. However, the time and effort to tune (rig) properly will make your machine shine!

This is what mine looked like prior to rigging! https://goo.gl/photos/2qoUtGrKByk23KV4A My flaps were nearly 5 degrees off!

That is about the exact amount that mine are off.

Thanks for the info.

Was that a good or bad comment about a Ford? LOL

Andy95W · February 14, 2017

It is not uncommon for the high pressure air below the ailerons to raise them in flight and take some of the slop out of the aileron linkage.

This is greater in the older airplanes, of course, but I've seen it even in a very new Ovation 3. This is independent of the ailerons and flaps being properly rigged, since the rigging is done on the ground without the air pressure below the wing pushing the ailerons up.

The amount it raises the ailerons should be slight, and most importantly it should be the same for both ailerons.

**Hank** · February 14, 2017

On the ground, mine are level with the flaps and wingtips; in flight, both are raised up almost as much as guitar's are in his on-the-ground photo.

**INA201** · February 14, 2017

Has anyone thought their plane was well rigged and had it checked to find that it wasn't? Mine flies great and seems that everything lines up well but there is always that looming knot out there seeing how my J is around 154 knots.

Bob_Belville · February 14, 2017

53 minutes ago, INA201 said:

Has anyone thought their plane was well rigged and had it checked to find that it wasn't? Mine flies great and seems that everything lines up well but there is always that looming knot out there seeing how my J is around 154 knots.

Thomas, you're in Spartanburg? Bring your J up to KMRN. Lynn (AGL Aviation) has all the rigging boards and can check your plane's rigging in less than an hour. Any adjustments indicated will take a little longer but not more than 4 hours at the outside.

Use my name, I need brownie points to cover all the times I drag him down to my hangar for a "what do you think about this?".

https://www.aglaviation.com/

**jetdriven** · February 14, 2017

10 hours ago, Andy95W said:

It is not uncommon for the high pressure air below the ailerons to raise them in flight and take some of the slop out of the aileron linkage.

This is greater in the older airplanes, of course, but I've seen it even in a very new Ovation 3. This is independent of the ailerons and flaps being properly rigged, since the rigging is done on the ground without the air pressure below the wing pushing the ailerons up.

The amount it raises the ailerons should be slight, and most importantly it should be the same for both ailerons.

Great advice. Rig the ailerons with a person on each pushing up with about 30-40 lbs of force. That's where they'll be in flight.

**INA201** · February 14, 2017

1 hour ago, Bob_Belville said:

Thomas, you're in Spartanburg? Bring your J up to KMRN. Lynn (AGL Aviation) has all the rigging boards and can check your plane's rigging in less than an hour. Any adjustments indicated will take a little longer but not more than 4 hours at the outside.

Use my name, I need brownie points to cover all the times I drag him down to my hangar for a "what do you think about this?".

https://www.aglaviation.com/

Thanks Bob, I'll give him a call and we can see how it turns out.

Heybluez · February 18, 2017

Wow.. mine are off as well... this thread is great, I may have to take mine to kmrn as well. Thanks!

**carusoam** · February 19, 2017

Now about that Ford...

if it has a catalytic converter, it won't keep running on seven cylinders. The cat will pack up. As the back pressure builds, the engine stops running very well....

Preemptively swapping out spark plugs is better than changing out cats...

often, when the service engine soon light is turned on, the timing and/or mixture get adjusted to a 'safe' rich setting. Dumping excess fuel to the cat is going to kill the cat over time...

-------------

+1 on getting the rigging boards out...

Consider Having a rigging day fly-in... the boards come out and everyone can see how close theirs are to being well rigged. The only cost comes with the need to make adjustments.

Thinking outloud....

-a-

Edited February 19, 2017 by carusoam

Bob_Belville · February 19, 2017

33 minutes ago, carusoam said:

+1 on getting the rigging boards out...

Consider Having a rigging day fly-in... the boards come out and everyone can see how close theirs are to being well rigged. The only cost comes with the need to make adjustments.

Thinking outloud....

-a-

I'm thinking I've been thinking the same thing. And I'll bet AGL would be willing to host such a party. Maybe another "Mooneys to the Mountains" fly-in.

Guitarmaster · February 19, 2017

Now about that Ford...
if it has a catalytic converter, it won't keep running on seven cylinders. The cat will pack up. As the back pressure builds, the engine stops running very well....
Preemptively swapping out spark plugs is better than changing out cats...
often, when the service engine soon light is turned on, the timing and/or mixture get adjusted to a 'safe' rich setting. Dumping excess fuel to the cat is going to kill the cat over time...
-------------
+1 on getting the rigging boards out...
Consider Having a rigging day fly-in... the boards come out and everyone can see how close theirs are to being well rigged. The only cost comes with the need to make adjustments.
Thinking outloud....
-a-

No cat on my 1968 Cougar!

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Bob_Belville · February 20, 2017

I'm thinking I've been thinking the same thing. And I'll bet AGL would be willing to host such a party. Maybe another "Mooneys to the Mountains" fly-in.

AGL thinks a Rigging Check Fly In @KMRN would be a great event! We're thinking April... (The 201 being picked up today had flaps that were 3 deg. down when full up.)

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

mccdeuce · February 21, 2017

Except I didn't pick her up! Thanks for the help today Bob.

a rigging session would have been great. Maintenance learning sessions are what we need!

Bob_Belville · February 21, 2017

8 hours ago, mccdeuce said:

Except I didn't pick her up! Thanks for the help today Bob.

a rigging session would have been great. Maintenance learning sessions are what we need!

Mark, sadly, I know you didn't get to PU your J yesterday. I'm headed to the airport - anxious to see what Lynn has learned. I hope to see you Saturday. (We have a church group coming to our house Saturday evening so I would like to pick you up Sat. AM @ KIGX.)

Mike@Loves · May 26, 2017

I am based @ 97FL (Love's Landing) just south of Leesburg, FL. I would like to get my flight controls rigging checked. I really like the sound of AGL @ KMRN, but it is a trek to get home. Can anyone recommend some one closer that have the rigging boards and expertise?

RLCarter · May 26, 2017

Sure wish someone had the CAD files for the Travel Boards or would make them and sell them at a reasonable price. By the way, my Ford runs good on 6cyls....lol

Bryan · May 26, 2017

what does a travel board look like?

**carusoam** · May 26, 2017

Somebody posted the drawing of the TBs around here somewhere...

There was some discussion regarding how to make some.

Best regards,

-a-

Tom · May 26, 2017

Thinking aloud:

In the reflexed position the OP's ailerons might effectively be in a lower-induced drag position. If this is so, all else equal, adjusting the ailerons to trail in the "correct" position might slow the plane.

A quick net search found comments suggesting that reflexed control surfaces on the Mooney's 23-215 may not have much of an effect, though users of certain airfoils will specifically set up a reflex position in cruise to decrease drag/increase speed.

RLCarter · May 26, 2017

I've heard of the flaps being slightly negative helps with speed

Mike@Loves · May 26, 2017

Travel can be rented here: http://www.hangartoolbox.com/Tools/135.aspx

They also show pictures

Mike@Loves · May 26, 2017

Sorry that "travel" should have read "travel boards"

**carusoam** · May 26, 2017

Mike you can edit your posts...

In the past, I believe hangar tool box was having difficulties.

It is possible they are back to full strength. Not sure how to check on that...

Best regards,

-a-

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