Garmin G5 problem

[NotarPilot]

I'm not writing this to bash Garmin or anything like that, this is just to alert other G5 users of a potential problem that I've been experiencing on my G5. Hopefully this is an isolated issue limited to my unit but since using the G5 I've noticed the artificial horizon was off by a few degrees. I calibrated it on the ground, per the manual, and flew it again this morning. The horizon was by far the worst I've seen it today with the artificial horizon off by 10-15 degrees from the actual horizon and slightly low all while in straight and level flight.

Needless to say I'm reluctant to fly in IMC until this is fixed. I took several photos to show what I'm talking about. If anyone else is experiencing this please let me know. Like I said, I hope this is an isolated problem.

[LANCECASPER]

Version 2.60 should take care of that. That being said I think these make great backups, a good replacement for the Turn Coordinator if you don't have an S-Tec autopilot, but there's not enough history to make it your only attitude indicator.

http://www8.garmin.com/support/collection.jsp?product=K10-00280-00

[Marauder]

Scary stuff Steve. I would have thought there would not be any bugs like this. I know the AHRS versions of these AIs are unique in both their presentation and sensitivity. I found it a bit challenging to use initially since the scale of the AHRS is different than the mechanical indicators I was accustomed to using. The biggest challenge was the degree of descent or climb. A 10 degree climb looks huge as compared to the mechanical indicator. Once I got comfortable with the display, I find it much easier to see minor attitude changes.

 

[NotarPilot]

1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said:

Version 2.60 should take care of that. That being said I think these make great backups, a good replacement for the Turn Coordinator if you don't have an S-Tec autopilot, but there's not enough history to make it your only attitude indicator.

http://www8.garmin.com/support/collection.jsp?product=K10-00280-00

I hope so. My understanding was 2.60 would fix issues related to vibration but I'll do the software upgrade and see what happens. Thanks Lance.

[flyboy0681]

My jaw dropped when I saw that picture. Just imagine cruising along in IMC and suddenly seeing that. These units are billed as potential life savers yet the manufacturers response is "a fix is available in the latest version".

 

[NotarPilot]

21 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said:

My jaw dropped when I saw that picture. Just imagine cruising along in IMC and suddenly seeing that. These units are billed as potential life savers yet the manufacturers response is "a fix is available in the latest version".

 

Trek Lawler told me to upgrade the software to 2.6 so I really hope that fixes it.  All the more reason not to rely completely on one instrument. Check that VSI, altimeter, heading, and TC... make sure they all jive with your AI.

[AaronDC8402]

A local flying club (that I'm still a member of) recently installed a G5 in the club's Archer III. The same thing you see in the OP's picture happened in that plane. Garmin swapped that unit out 2 days ago. When calling Garmin tech support, they didn't suggest upgrading to the new firmware. They immediately sent a replacement to the avionics shop. Never got the chance to see if a firmware update would have resolved the issue.

The G5 that we recently installed in our 201 has been great. I've flown it about 7 hours with no issue. My hangar neighbor has one in his 182, and has flown it about 20 hours with no issue. As of yesterday, we've got the latest firmware in our 201. No noticeable change after the update.

[flyboy0681]

It only needs to work correctly once.

[kortopates]

Yikes, Don't let those partial panel skills die!

Or are you simulating e-vacuum failure?!?

[M016576]

9 hours ago, NotarPilot said:

I'm not writing this to bash Garmin or anything like that, this is just to alert other G5 users of a potential problem that I've been experiencing on my G5. Hopefully this is an isolated issue limited to my unit but since using the G5 I've noticed the artificial horizon was off by a few degrees. I calibrated it on the ground, per the manual, and flew it again this morning. The horizon was by far the worst I've seen it today with the artificial horizon off by 10-15 degrees from the actual horizon and slightly low all while in straight and level flight.

Needless to say I'm reluctant to fly in IMC until this is fixed. I took several photos to show what I'm talking about. If anyone else is experiencing this please let me know. Like I said, I hope this is an isolated problem.

Happily, my Aspen has never done that... but I was a late(r) adoptor.  

These things happen, no matter who the manufacturer is.. the highest risk (like an engine overhaul), is in the infant stages of the devices operation. 

I'm happy to see that you found this while VMC.

just goes to show you: no manufacturer is immune from this type of problem...  sometime you just need to "find the bugs."

[NotarPilot]

I have about 1,000 hours behind a G500 and never seen any issues with them. They seem pretty robust and reliable so I really had high expectations going into the G5. I flew it again tonight and there were no issues. I'm going to upgrade to version 2.6 and I'll report back with my findings.

[TrekLawler]

Hello everyone,

   apologies for the delay in responding on this. this issue is related to higher vibrations levels in the plane, especially if it is mounted to a floating or shock mounted panel. in some of the cases these shocks have been found to be worn and replacing them is also an option to try and prevent this. remember this is a non TSO'd product and even though we did test it to some of these TSO levels it is not tested to some of these higher vibration levels. but the 2.6 software release was actually tested per some helicopter requirements and corrects most of these issues.

 

let me know if there are any other questions,

[MooneyBob]

21 hours ago, NotarPilot said:

I'm not writing this to bash Garmin or anything like that, this is just to alert other G5 users of a potential problem that I've been experiencing on my G5. Hopefully this is an isolated issue limited to my unit but since using the G5 I've noticed the artificial horizon was off by a few degrees. I calibrated it on the ground, per the manual, and flew it again this morning. The horizon was by far the worst I've seen it today with the artificial horizon off by 10-15 degrees from the actual horizon and slightly low all while in straight and level flight.

Needless to say I'm reluctant to fly in IMC until this is fixed. I took several photos to show what I'm talking about. If anyone else is experiencing this please let me know. Like I said, I hope this is an isolated problem.

Based on Trek's answer would you say that your plane has higher vibration levels than usual? 

[carusoam]

Or the panel is vibrating differently than they had tested for...  how old are the shock mounts? Have you ever tightened them?

Things that come to mind of a PP...

Bet regards,

-a-

[Marauder]

Based on Trek's answer would you say that your plane has higher vibration levels than usual? 

That is an excellent question to ask of NotarPilot. His day job is flying helicopters. If there is anyone who can tell the difference of vibration between an airplane and a helicopter, Steve can.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[NotarPilot]

6 hours ago, MooneyBob said:

Based on Trek's answer would you say that your plane has higher vibration levels than usual? 

Oddly, I just had the prop dynamically balanced last weekend by a guy who is one of the best in the business. The difference in vibration level was noticeably better after the balancing yet the problem was most exasperated on the subsequent flight.  I'll give a pirep in a few days when I fly again. 

[NotarPilot]

3 hours ago, carusoam said:

Or the panel is vibrating differently than they had tested for...  how old are the shock mounts? Have you ever tightened them?

Things that come to mind of a PP...

Bet regards,

-a-

I don't know, I will have to research this. They might be pretty old. I don't recall seeing anything in the logbooks referring to their replacement but I haven't looked for this specifically either.

[AaronDC8402]

I'm guessing the amplitude of the vibration is not as much the issue as is the profile of the vibration.

[jamesm]

If I read the Garmin G5  AML STC install manual for the the correctly .... you are   not  suppose install the G5 in a  panel with  shock mounts.

• "The G5 cannot be installed in a shock-mounted instrument panel. However, if the other instruments installed in the panel do not require shock mounting, remove the existing shock mounts and replace with standard AN, MS or NAS hardware to create a rigid instrument panel installation. " Pg30

•  

Also the there is vibration test procedure  they have you do (pg 47 ) as part of the check out  not sure catches everything.

I did noticed what what you had mentioned about the horizon being off in straight and level flight.  I haven't seen as case as bad one of your picture shows  In my case probably 5 degrees. I  have only flown it  about handful of times since the G5  was installed. 

Thanks for sharing.

James '67C

Edited January 15, 2017 by jamesm

[gsxrpilot]

3 minutes ago, jamesm said:

If read the Garmin G5  AML STC install manual for the the correctly .... you are   not  suppose install the G5 in a  panel with  shock mounts.

• "cannot be installed in a shock mounted instrument panel Reference Section 4.1 " Pg16

This limitation was removed in the latest version of the G5 install manual.

[jamesm]

I did not know this. 

Thanks

James

[NotarPilot]

Correct, I know this was removed but I doubled checked anyways.

[NotarPilot]

V2.6 seems to have done the fix so far. 4 short flights and no leaning. I hope this holds. 

[jamesm]

Good to know thanks.

James

[NotarPilot]

3 hours ago, daver328 said:

Good to know ... they're installing our G5 now ... will be interesting to see if we have any of these issues ... I'll give the shop a heads up to be sure it's updated to 2.6.

 

It's very easy to update the firmware. Just follow these instructions I found posted on BT.  

1. Download the compressed update file onto your hard drive and extract it (.zip format).
2. Insert a FAT32-formatted micro SD card with at least 20 MB of free space into your card reader.
3. Copy the ''Garmin'' folder to the top level (root directory) of the SD card.
4. Safely eject the SD card.
5. Apply power to your G5 Electronic Flight Instrument.
6. Insert the SD card containing the software update. You will be prompted to confirm before the update is installed.
7. During the software update, the G5 will indicate ''Loading''. Do not remove power during the update process.
8. When the update is completed, the G5 will reset itself and turn on normally.
   Repeat steps 6-8 for each G5 unit in the aircraft.

I'd almost like to see what happens if you fly around for a while on v2.4 before updating to v2.6.