Flap Deployment Speed

[MLerro1986]

An interesting topic came up the other day while reviewing the POH of my 2006 M20R Ovation2.  As it states, and as indicated by the white arc, full flaps can be deployed at 110kts.  Typically, in the other aircrafts I've flown, I've been instructed to put the first notch of flaps and gear down at the same time, as the increase in lift counters the increase in drag and results in less needed control input.  This has always made sense to me, but most aircraft I've flown have a placard for the airspeed deployment for the first notch of flaps, or at the very least, have some indication in the POH.  This, however, is not the case on the Ovation2.  I would assume that the first notch can withstand the forces that the gear can withstand at 140kts, but since it is not listed anywhere, I have not attempted it.  My instructor and I were both a little confused by the lack of information in the POH, which seems to only mention full flaps in most cases.  Any input from my fellow Mooney pilots would be appreciated.

[Hank]

I can't help with flap speed in your O, but in my C flap speed is actually 5 mph faster than gear speed. I also never lower them at the same time. I fly Approaches with Flaps to Takeoff, and drop the gear 1-1/2 dots above the glideslope, and she slows and rides right on down. When VFR, I drop Approach flaps entering the pattern or in downwind,and drop the gear abeam my intended point of landing, then reduce power to descend.

The Cessna that I trained in did have two Flap speeds, a high one for 10° and a much slower one for > 10°. My Mooney, however, doesn't indicate degrees of motion on the flaps, but my Owners Manual says that Takeoff Flaps = 15° and Landing Flaps = 33°, and the little button lets me put them wherever I want to.

My suggestion would be to find an experienced Mooney instructor, preferably with Long Body experience. The Long Bodies have significantly different characteristics than A-K models. Just look at the stance on the ground to get a feel for the proper landing position. Be careful to not hit the tail!

MAPA has a very good training program, the Pilot Proficiency Program (PPP) that travels around the country several times a year. This is a great way to learn a lot about your new Mooney. But please start off with an instructor who is knowledgable about the plane . . . I would not "assume" that the flaps can withstand any aero loading at speeds higher than what is shown in your POH. On the other hand, the gear doors are just non-structural sheet metal, while your flaps are built-up structures required for flight.

[Bob_Belville]

If you're new to your Mooney you really ought to find a transition instructor with Mooney credentials. We had a story here a few days ago in which an "instructor" told his student to never let a Mooney get below 100 kts or some such speed or it would kill him. The flaps/gear stuff is about as unfounded. It's a very good idea to put the gear down prior to touch down. Flap extension is optional. 

 

[Marauder]

42 minutes ago, MLerro1986 said:

An interesting topic came up the other day while reviewing the POH of my 2006 M20R Ovation2.  As it states, and as indicated by the white arc, full flaps can be deployed at 110kts.  Typically, in the other aircrafts I've flown, I've been instructed to put the first notch of flaps and gear down at the same time, as the increase in lift counters the increase in drag and results in less needed control input.  This has always made sense to me, but most aircraft I've flown have a placard for the airspeed deployment for the first notch of flaps, or at the very least, have some indication in the POH.  This, however, is not the case on the Ovation2.  I would assume that the first notch can withstand the forces that the gear can withstand at 140kts, but since it is not listed anywhere, I have not attempted it.  My instructor and I were both a little confused by the lack of information in the POH, which seems to only mention full flaps in most cases.  Any input from my fellow Mooney pilots would be appreciated.

Your flap speeds (VFo & VFe) are probably 109 KIAS like it is for many Mooney models. I do remember some of the older models had cracked components which I believe were to flaps being extended too high. I personally would not exceed the VFo/VFe from your POH. Your gear, unlike mine, has a high VLo & VLe. It gives you an advantage to slowing down that many of us with low gear speeds owners don't have.

[carqwik]

Great question.  I don't know the answer.  I just put out the first notch of flaps following gear/power reduction in preparation for landing... Full flaps somewhere on final...as required for spacing.

[bradp]

Chris is correct - the IAs on the board can fill in the details, but flap hinge can crack at its attach point (in the middle of the fuselage).  My IA includes this inspection on his personal list of things to be looked at in a Mooney during annual or pre buy.  

I don't like making too many alternator load / voltage regulator changes simultaneously, so for that reason I avoid running gear, flaps and trim all at the same time.  

My non long body but common sense recommendation would be drop the gear, slow to the top of the white and use that as a conservative guide to not stress the components of the flap assembly.   Simultaneously you'll be running the trim as the flaps come down to take care of the nose down flap moment.  

There are those occasional times when I've forgotten to clean up prior to cruise and wondered why it's there is a rumbly wind noise and I ain't going fast... the flaps are robust but shouldn't be abused.  

[carusoam]

The spar that the flaps attach to is expensive to replace.  It is an important PPI check list item when trying to sell your plane.

There are so many ways to slow the plane without using the flaps to do it. Gear and speed brakes are pretty effective.

So, there is an operating speed for flaps. I take that to mean don't operate them above that speed.

Yes, the C152 I trained in did not abide by the flap speed limit for the first notch of flaps.

 

That brings you to the next question...

have you forgotten to raise the flaps until after you exceeded the flap operation speed?  With O3 power that speed comes up rather quickly.

 

This is why we have checklists.  Not having them can get expensive. 

 

+1 for Transition Training.  We have a few CFIIs around here that are worth their weight in expensive alloys.

+1 for MAPA PPP training.

 

Let us know if you need a recommendation in your area of the Mooney world.

Best regards,

-a-

[carusoam]

Did you know...

O Flaps and trim are commonly run simultaneously.  

Their motors/gearboxes are designed to to work at the same speeds.  This keeps the nose from dropping as the flaps come down.

Final trim is dependent on WnB.

Fun stuff, 

-a-