Mooney down NJ

[Guest]

Not a great weekend, we lost a local pilot when his Zenair 601 crashed into a forest.

Clarence

[peevee]

9 hours ago, Piloto said:

Day or night wind is invisible.

yeah, don't look at the trees.

[Chris from PA]

My hangar neighbors were at Sky Manor yesterday and watched the whole thing. I was stunned as they described what they saw. Tailwinds to my fellow aviators.

[Marauder]

Not a good day for GA. This mid-air occurred not far from where I grew up in WNY.

http://live.buffalonews.com/2016/09/25/person-reportedly-killed-mid-air-collision-north-collins/


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[Alain B]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

Not a great weekend, we lost a local pilot when his Zenair 601 crashed into a forest.

Clarence

3 were lost lost and one criticaly injured over the week end in Quebec : one glider pilot was lost in a stall-spin accident landing in Bromont Qc on saturday , 2 were lost and one criticaly injured in a Cessna crash over the northeastern side of the province yesterday afternoon . 

[Jim Peace]

1 hour ago, Chris from PA said:

 I was stunned as they described what they saw.

Care to elaborate?

[Seth]

11 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

If anyone learns of the contact info for the surviving families, please let me know.

TIA

Mike

You could start by contacting Airmods.  They probably took care of this bird if it was based on the field.

Prayers to all.

-Seth

 

[Seth]

11 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

If anyone learns of the contact info for the surviving families, please let me know.

TIA

Mike

You could start by contacting Airmods.  They probably took care of this bird if it was based on the field.

Prayers to all.

-Seth

 

[Cris]

11 hours ago, 201er said:

I'd be hard pressed to go into sky manor with 3 on board (full size adults). Not only is that runway 2900ft but it's got trees on one end and high power lines on the other. There's no shallow glide path into it from either direction so a tailwind would be devastating. You guys never see me getting gas there. First off cause I don't take the burrito and secondly cause I don't want to be anything more than 200lbs under gross. And even then it's a pretty teeth clenching departure where you familiarize yourself with all the local fauna. Landing there is tough but I can see how going around could be even more of a problem. 

I fly over there for lunch often and we've had many Mooney fly ins there. The airport manager himself keeps his Mooney there. So this hits close to home on so many levels.

As Mike states this is good conservative advice. I've flown into this airport many times over the years and I am always struck with how undulating the runway is particularly as one lands on 25. This exacerbates any excess airspeed as you can actually skip over segments further extending the landing and leading to the dreaded pogo effect. This is one of those one bounce and go places which leaves no room to salvage poor technique.

Edited September 26, 2016 by Cris

[MyNameIsNobody]

Sorry to hear of this.  It is especially difficult to see a Mooney down and crumpled with the loss of life.  Thoughts are with the family and friends of those lost.  Fly safe everyone.

[Danb]

9 hours ago, Marauder said:

As Mike (201er) pointed out, the winds were shifting a bit today. I experienced a pretty wind shift on my takeoff this afternoon. Sad to read this thread...


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I came into KILG around that time after 6 hours of flying, just before touchdown my plane went a little nose up and I glided at least 1000 ft before touchdown if I were going into the short strip after the first go round I would have landed elsewhere, I figured I was tired, but a few guys landing around that time mentioned  wasn't that fun. Many times those pretty days are the most challenging. The wind at KILG at 1000 ft showed a head wind of about 10 knots, at DH I was showing a tail wind of 5 knots, as Mike/Chris said it was shifty.

 

Jeez that does suck.

[PTK]

What we know:

Pilot rented a Mooney, loaded it almost to the gills and attempted to fly into Sky Manor. Probably not the most straightforward approach and landing as has been described. Resulted in loss of control of the airplane and along with it two lives and possibly a third.

Questions that come to mind: When do we, (as in we collectively in GA), look and scrutinize closely at who can rent what airplane? When do we seriously look at currency, total time, and time in type? When do we look at our pilot training model and see if it can be improved? Do we need desperately to be discussing this or am I overreacting? Does anyone with a ppl and a checkout have the right to rent an airplane and go? Would it be an infringement on our freedom to ask some hard questions?

 

 

[orionflt]

2 minutes ago, PTK said:

What we know:

Pilot rented a Mooney, loaded it almost to the gills and attempted to fly into Sky Manor. Probably not the most straightforward approach and landing as has been described. Resulted in loss of control of the airplane and along with it two lives and possibly a third.

Questions that come to mind: When do we, (as in we collectively in GA), look and scrutinize closely at who can rent what airplane? When do we seriously look at currency, total time, and time in type? When do we look at our pilot training model and see if it can be improved? Do we need desperately to be discussing this or am I overreacting? Does anyone with a ppl and a checkout have the right to rent an airplane and go? Would it be an infringement on our freedom to ask some hard questions?

 

 

Most of the places I know that rent airplanes will not just rent it to anyone walking thru the door. they have a check out process even for a 172

Brian 

[Alan Fox]

3 minutes ago, PTK said:

What we know:

Pilot rented a Mooney, loaded it almost to the gills and attempted to fly into Sky Manor. Probably not the most straightforward approach and landing as has been described. Resulted in loss of control of the airplane and along with it two lives and possibly a third.

Questions that come to mind: When do we, (as in we collectively in GA), look and scrutinize closely at who can rent what airplane? When do we seriously look at currency, total time, and time in type? When do we look at our pilot training model and see if it can be improved? Do we need desperately to be discussing this or am I overreacting? Does anyone with a ppl and a checkout have the right to rent an airplane and go? Would it be an infringement on our freedom to ask some hard questions?

 

 

I looked up his License he is legally qualified to fly this plane, end of story....NO WE DON"T need more regulation......Just be thankful the mistakes you have made in the cockpit have not killed you..... I know I am...

 

[Danb]

Regulation is a tough word, I do  believe the owner of the rental plane should do there due diligence in the renting of the plane it should include some of the items Peter mentioned.

[PTK]

22 minutes ago, Alan Fox said:

I looked up his License he is legally qualified to fly this plane, end of story....NO WE DON"T need more regulation......Just be thankful the mistakes you have made in the cockpit have not killed you..... I know I am...

 

So if we look closely at "legally qualified" vs. "qualified" it would be viewed as too much regulation? I respect people's opinion. How about if we try and start a discussion anyway. And try to get away from labeling it "overregulation." Let's think outside the box and let's not be afraid to start talking about it. 

 

[gsxrpilot]

Just now, Danb said:

Regulation is a tough word, I do  believe the owner of the rental plane should do there due diligence in the renting of the plane it should include some of the items Peter mentioned.

You think owners don't do this already? I remember trying to rent planes prior to owning, and it seemed like every time I was at a new FBO, I basically had to do a full BFR before getting approved to rent.

[Danb]

Paul I think most do.I didn't say it wasn't done, but stated it should be. 

[Marauder]

Directed towards the comments about pilot qualifications -- the FAA has already identified an area of risk and changed the PTS to address it. It is a shift from the technical skills of being a pilot towards the decision making involved in being a pilot.

I don't think there is one of us who hasn't made a poor decision. Where we got lucky was the end result of that decision didn't do us in.


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[Marauder]

I came into KILG around that time after 6 hours of flying, just before touchdown my plane went a little nose up and I glided at least 1000 ft before touchdown if I were going into the short strip after the first go round I would have landed elsewhere, I figured I was tired, but a few guys landing around that time mentioned  wasn't that fun. Many times those pretty days are the most challenging. The wind at KILG at 1000 ft showed a head wind of about 10 knots, at DH I was showing a tail wind of 5 knots, as Mike/Chris said it was shifty.
 
Jeez that does suck.

I noted the wind shifts on my Aspen as well. As much 120 degrees at different altitudes.


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[Marauder]

http://6abc.com/news/2-people-killed-in-small-plane-crash-at-new-jersey-airport/1526107/




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[mike_elliott]

Just now, Marauder said:

http://6abc.com/news/2-people-killed-in-small-plane-crash-at-new-jersey-airport/1526107/




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If anyone learns of how to contact Karen's or George's families, please let me know.

TIA

Mike

[Alan Fox]

4 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

If anyone learns of how to contact Karen's or George's families, please let me know.

TIA

Mike

I think its best to let them grieve in peace ,

[Alan Fox]

Sky Manor , (or sky manure) as we like to call it , is in an area of rolling hills , and it is hard to really get  good visual cues as to your altitude , and the field altitude , also coupled with the power lines at the end of the prevailing runway , it is easy to come in steep and fast , If you are not precise with airspeed control , it is easy to come in hot........ I have been there probably a hundred times , and still almost always use the whole runway.....

[PTK]

10 minutes ago, Alan Fox said:

Sky Manor , (or sky manure) as we like to call it , is in an area of rolling hills , and it is hard to really get  good visual cues as to your altitude , and the field altitude , also coupled with the power lines at the end of the prevailing runway , it is easy to come in steep and fast , If you are not precise with airspeed control , it is easy to come in hot........ I have been there probably a hundred times , and still almost always use the whole runway.....

 

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

You think owners don't do this already? I remember trying to rent planes prior to owning, and it seemed like every time I was at a new FBO, I basically had to do a full BFR before getting approved to rent.

Sooooo... back to my original question: When do we, (as in we collectively in GA), look and scrutinize closely at who can rent what airplane? When do we seriously look at currency, total time, and time in type? When do we look at our pilot training model and see if it can be improved?

Or if someone had a checkout is considered "legally qualified" and we hand them the keys? God forbid we risk being accused of favoring overregulation!

Did the innocent pax have any input in the decision making process? If saving lives means "overregulation" than I'm all for it!