What should i get?

[midlifeflyer]

BTW, I came to this discussion late. But 70+ posts most of which are responses from the OP as to why everyone is wrong smells a wee bit like trolling. So I said my piece and will depart the thread.

[Guest Mike261]

Just now, midlifeflyer said:

BTW, I came to this discussion late. But 70+ posts most of which are responses from the OP as to why everyone is wrong smells a wee bit like trolling. So I said my piece and will depart the thread.

i believe you may be correct. 

[M20F-1968]

Having read through the many posts and responses, I have to chime in.  Samuri Husky, I am hearing you rationalize and analyze each step of your decision to purchase an airplane.  You have spent a fair amount of your discussions focusing on equipment, speed, space, room for dogs, and time from point A to point B.  What I have not heard you focus on is the process of learning to fly and the process of gaining experience and incorporating the skill of flying into your very being.  I used to be a symphonic musician where you needed to practice and over-prepare passages so when your were before an audience, or at an audition where your life would be decided, you instinctively performed well.  Then I went to medical school, where you learned mechanisms of disease, bodily systems, and thought analytically.  In both fields, it took years if not decades for me to truly incorporate that information into who I am.  Flying and aviation is much the same.  That is perhaps why I fly.  I ski for the same reason.  You never can be good enough.  When one learns to fly, just like practicing and orchestra passage, or learning to assess a patient's illness and make a diagnosis, it is what is in your long term memory and seasoned bodies of knowledge that will carry you through.  This takes time.  Not having such seasoned knowledge will bite you quicker than you want to know in aviation.  It takes time to incorporate the various complexities of aviation, weather, how the airplane feels, what you missed on this flight that you recognize a year later.  This all takes time.  Enjoy the process so you will have a better chance of keeping yourself out of trouble.  You have the finances to do it right.  Learn to fly.  Get your PPL and IFR ratings.  Experience as a renter.  Come to the Florida Mooney Summit where you will meet other Mooney owners with an eye on their need to learn.  You will know when you are ready to purchase.  You do not need to chart out the full course now.  Take it a week at a time, slow down the process and enjoy the journey.

John Breda 

[carusoam]

Sam,

1) You are still here. That is dedication.

2) You are still missing the points various people are making.  Are you not taking the time?

3) You have been likened to an Internet troll. Sometimes hard to tell the difference.  Try not to come off as a troll.

4) Some of your preferences are technically challenged.  You won't know until you get closer to having to make them.  The Twin's engine in a Mooney has a technical challenge that isn't always good.  Would you prefer your prop to fail to high rpm or to low rpm.  That is a choice that only you can decide.

5) Another reference to having gobs of money won't buy another friend.  There are a lot of nice cars owned by Mooney pilots.  They are not often displayed in public for various reasons.

6) Mooney flight instructors have lent you reasons to fly various trainer planes.  The additional experience you get from a different plane helps build the big picture experience that will help you out in a bind.

7) Flying one hour per week will take an ordinary person about two years to get a PPL...

8) It is possible to compress the time of training by optimizing your schedule.  Learn something new each time, avoid memory and muscle memory loss that naturally comes with a week of inactivity.

9) There are whole schools that specialize in that type of training.  They have multiple (near identical) planes and multiple instructors (working from a syllabus) that are qualified to handle your requirements.

10) The PPL is taught at a high school level.  The instrument rating is more similar to a college level class.  The text books are easy to compare.

Ten thoughts of the day,

-a-

[Samurai Husky]

3 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

First of all, I don;t see a problem with learning how to fly in a high performance airplane. A friend of mine bought a 182 and learned to fly in that. Another friend had a son who learned how to fly in that friend's airplane - a Cessna 210. There are only two real downsides - it will take much longer and the airplane will be much less forgiving of any mistake.

But I'm commenting mostly because of your desire to have information that is simply not technical put in technical terms.  Best example is that 50 KT differential. I've seen pilots with a lot of experience get messed up when transitioning to an airplane only 10 KTs faster. It's not about the technicality of 50 KTS, it is about the natural and trained abilities of human beings. 

If you take away the very stupid things pilots do, like running our of gas, I would have to say that most accidents occur because the pilot is behind the airplane. Sure, when you up at 8,000 or 10,000 or 20,000 feet, it doesn't matter much. But change that to 2,000-4,000 in a busy terminal area where you need to prepare for a landing or mix with other traffic in a high density area and, without training and experience, thinking and staying ahead is not something that comes naturally to most people.

Those of us who are instructors see it every single day. Students who are on downwind and can't even manage to think 15 seconds ahead to what the will do once abeam the touchdown zone. Instrument pilots during an IPC who wait until the very last minute to brief or set up for an approach and get completely flummoxed when asked to change to a different approach. Hundreds of other examples.

Now you might be they superguy - the natural pilot who comes to aviation without  the human frailties that affect most human beings. i kinda doubt it, but if you are, more power to you. After all, if you are, you hardly need the advice of mere mortals.

Nope, that makes sense. I suppose if you are trained to the extent of mussel memory then your timing can be completely thrown off by changing speeds and it will take extra thought to correct for changes in patterns and behavior that you have become accustomed to. I have seen the same thing in my instructor, where he will forget that i am a student and do things his way and just assume that i know what i am doing at the speed he is used to operating. We had a talk about that after the last lesson. Sometimes people need to be reminded to communicate because they are so used to doing things a certain way for so long. Barking 20 orders at once is not going to get it done faster, its just going to confuse me. 

I can also relate to the whole thinking ahead part. Between com; the trafficscope yelling there is traffic (no kidding im 3rd in line on approach), watching the nav to make sure im not drifting into the other airports airspace, watching altitude to make sure i am under the class B but not too low that im under, watching air speed to make sure I dont run into that plane infront of me and the other 10 things going on; i can appreciate where adding additional tasks could further complicate things. My instructor told me that adding a landing gear wasnt really a big deal, as its just a line item on the check list, granted one that needs to be bold, highlighted, stared, all caps, underlined etc. So i didnt think much of it. Thats probably where i should know better because of how many planes is see with damage because of a 'gear up landing'. 

 

@Mike261

I think you took my comment out of context. So let me better explain my position. I am sure that a 172 is a fine plane, I will get first hand experience on one soon. Maybe it will be better than i think it is and i probably did come off as too dismissive, when i rechecked the spec's i was probably thinking 152 instead of 172. My comment was more along the lines of not seeing the additional benefit to flying a 172 for a extra 100 hours when i am already flying the Cirrus. It would seem that the Cirrus would make me better prepared for moving up as it is also a low wing, high performance craft. To me it just seemed like it was counter productive to get used to a faster plane, to then go into a slower plane an relearn the individuality of the craft, because of that, i didnt see the point of spending 100+ hours in one, which to me would warrant actually buying one. I will already have close to 100 hours in a Cirrus (maybe more) by my check ride. So why shake things up? Why not just continue the path I am on? 

As for the comment about technique; I am just repeating what my instructor told me. I have no personal experience and just took his advice for face value. The way he explained it made sense.

That is the point of these forums isnt it? Correct misconceptions, learn and grow. Someone once said 'The amount of knowledge we know to be true can fill a book. The amount of knowledge we think we know can fill a library'. If no one said that, then credit me

 

 

 

[Samurai Husky]

Maybe it was a mistake coming here. Now I am being called a troll and accused of being a show off; 

I have sacrificed a ton of time in trying to type out meaningful and constructive posts, more time then i should have so that you can see where i was coming from. This is a huge decision in my life and I have been honest at every post. Some of you have been very helpful and patient, i thank you for that. Others, have been more hurtful then helpful. 

Sorry for wasting everyone's time; I was hoping to be apart of this community and grow with it and it seems I over stayed my welcome. It was not my intention to troll or to disrupt your community as it seems i might have. If the mods what to delete this topic, then they are welcome to do so. I have already written down the information i need to know separately. 

 

[ChrisH]

Maybe this is the problem with aviation, here we have an excited young person looking to join the ranks and buy a plane and we're raining on the parade. While I agree that after I got my PPL/IFR that I understood far less that I needed to be safe, the only way to learn is to train, talk, and fly. That's why hours count when we renew insurance, and while I did my practical post IFR learning in a 231, looking back I think the Rocket would have been easier than wrestling that engine.  

Maybe a better piece of advise is to direct Samurai to a training program that can mint a safe pilot in a reasonable way. That may not be flying the same patch of ground in a trainer for the next 100hrs, he still won't know the ATC system, wx that changes enroute or the fun of 'unexpected delay'.

[kevinw]

50 minutes ago, Samurai Husky said:

Maybe it was a mistake coming here. Now I am being called a troll and accused of being a show off; 

I have sacrificed a ton of time in trying to type out meaningful and constructive posts, more time then i should have so that you can see where i was coming from. This is a huge decision in my life and I have been honest at every post. Some of you have been very helpful and patient, i thank you for that. Others, have been more hurtful then helpful. 

Sorry for wasting everyone's time; I was hoping to be apart of this community and grow with it and it seems I over stayed my welcome. It was not my intention to troll or to disrupt your community as it seems i might have. If the mods what to delete this topic, then they are welcome to do so. I have already written down the information i need to know separately. 

 

I think the problem here is you're getting a lot of good, sound advice that will help you develop into a safe and proficient pilot but you don't like what you're reading and refuse to accept it. Overwhelmingly members, some of who are instructors, are telling you it's not a good idea to jump into an ultra-high performance airplane this early in your flying. It's not a good idea and you're putting yourself and potential passengers at risk. This isn't personal. Good advice is worthless if you don't take it.

[dfgreene61]

Wow, it always amazes me how preachy this forum can get sometimes.  Husky, I got my PPL in a C-152.  Then I bought a Piper Tomahawk to build some time in.  Sold that and purchased Grumman AA1A with a 150 engine.  That was a fun little plane.  Very maneuverable with 140 knot cruise but SHORT legs.  Then I moved up to a Turbo Arrow.  You can cruise at 155+ in the Arrow, it has excellent range and load.  It's also very stable for IMC.  I never felt like I was behind the plane.  So all this added up to around 600 hours of flying.  Then along comes Mr. Mooney, a '82 J model lovingly owned by a member of this forum before I purchased it.

The Mooney is more of a chore to fly well than the Arrow.  It's not as draggy and can get away from you easier.  There's just not as much of a margin for error when it comes to steep turns and landing.  You need to be on the numbers and watch your speed or it will get away from you.  Is it something to fear?  I don't think so at all.  Good training followed by lots of practice = good results. 

You can remove the back seats in a J ('82 on up I believe) providing lots of room for your dogs in back.  I typically plan 155 Knots at between 8.5 and 9.0 GPH.  If you purchase a clean J and fly it for a few years I'm sure you'll have no trouble selling if you decide to move on up.  Since you're going to be doing a lot of x-country flying and most definitely will find yourself in the soup, the most important item in your plane may very well wind up being your auto-pilot.  If it were me (and it was) I'd find a clean J then I'd upgrade to Aspen, Garmin GTN and a new digital AP.  These tools can save your life and will make flying much more enjoyable.

BTW, when I had the Turbo Arrow I very seldom flew over 12,500.  And I live in the Rockies!

Welcome on board!

 

Edited March 29, 2016 by dfgreene61

[1524J]

1 hour ago, Samurai Husky said:

Maybe it was a mistake coming here. Now I am being called a troll and accused of being a show off; 

I have sacrificed a ton of time in trying to type out meaningful and constructive posts, more time then i should have so that you can see where i was coming from. This is a huge decision in my life and I have been honest at every post. Some of you have been very helpful and patient, i thank you for that. Others, have been more hurtful then helpful. 

Sorry for wasting everyone's time; I was hoping to be apart of this community and grow with it and it seems I over stayed my welcome. It was not my intention to troll or to disrupt your community as it seems i might have. If the mods what to delete this topic, then they are welcome to do so. I have already written down the information i need to know separately. 

 

Nah.....don't go! This is where you need to be, even if some of these guys are coming off as harsh. I suspect most, if not all, really have your best interests at heart and may just need more "CFI time" in being able to make their points w/out destroying the student. Along those same lines......perhaps grasshopper could listen w/out internalizing it all as personal. I'm a 54 year old, 650 hour plus, instrument rated pilot. I'm here because I need to learn......stick around and learn with me!!

[MyNameIsNobody]

OP likes to hear himself talk.  A LOT....

Stay.  Go.

Fly.  Die.

Live.

Process that.

[Marauder]

1 hour ago, Samurai Husky said:

Maybe it was a mistake coming here. Now I am being called a troll and accused of being a show off; 

I have sacrificed a ton of time in trying to type out meaningful and constructive posts, more time then i should have so that you can see where i was coming from. This is a huge decision in my life and I have been honest at every post. Some of you have been very helpful and patient, i thank you for that. Others, have been more hurtful then helpful. 

Sorry for wasting everyone's time; I was hoping to be apart of this community and grow with it and it seems I over stayed my welcome. It was not my intention to troll or to disrupt your community as it seems i might have. If the mods what to delete this topic, then they are welcome to do so. I have already written down the information i need to know separately. 

 

I took the time to read the whole thread and I think what triggered the response you got was that you initially came across as an overachiever, overly confident bordering on arrogant student pilot. Now that I said that morsel, I can safely say the same thing about most pilots I know -- including me. The difference is that most of us have been around aviation for a while and have seen too many friends die doing what we do. And not from the dreaded mechanical failure in the worst conditions flyable. Rather from becoming too confident or too complacent as a pilot.

Hank pointed out a couple of low time Mooney pilots we lost over the past couple of years. Who he didn't mention were some of the high time pilots who we lost as well. Like Michael Moir who we lost last September off of the New Jersey coast or Michael Buxton who died with two others in Norfolk http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id=20150304X81814&key=1 and Bill Gilliland in Indiana. 

Gus's (Mooneymite) post hit home for me. I made a flight a couple of weeks ago to fly of all things, my daughter's purse back to her. A slow moving front had started to push through, it was getting late in the day, was really hazy -- but by the book VFR. I was flying west into a setting sun and did the flight VFR because I have flown the route a number of times and heck it was technically VFR! I also didn't want to deal with my Philly buds getting an IFR clearance out of my home airport. As I was descending into the area of my daughter's airport, I got a terrain alert and my Aspen MFD was showing a tower within a 200' of my altitude and less than a mile away. JUST PLAIN STUPID! And that's how it happens. Most pilots who live to have a long flying career, live the Chuck Yeager line "it's the man, not the machine". In my case, if I had an accident that day it was because of the man and certainly not the machine.

Take what others are saying in context. Re-read what you wrote and draw your own conclusions. The written language isn't always the best way to express a thought.

 

 

 

[Samurai Husky]

After taking a break from work, and posting, i decided to go back and re-read every post everyone made, my responses included, just to see if maybe i was over reading what people were saying. Outside of just a few of them, I feel that in general there was truly a lot of good information in there. Believe it or not, you have changed my mind on several things, which as you can tell, is NOT an easy thing to do. Before joining this forum, i was probably a month away from buying a Rocket; The more we went through this exercise, the farther i started to push things out and the more subjectively i started to look at things. 

That being said, I am willing to take 200kts off the table. If it is truly that difficult to do; then nows not the time to do it. I thought that with the cost of planes (acquisition, maintenance, oh etc) that it would be better to buy something that will fill the mission, rather then lose on a step up program. From that perspective i was willing to get a faster plane and govern it until i could fly it proper. But, if what everyone is saying is true and its nearly impossible for a newly minted pilot to pick up; then i am willing to let it go a little. 

 

@dfgreene61

Thank You; That is the type of post i was looking for;

I know that others were recommending the 'J' as well. Is there are particular reason, or is just because its a bit slower and so buys you more time to mess with everything? You also mentioned the Arrow, which i do not know much about. I would have to do more research into its abilities as well. I feel like my brain is filling up with more airplane specs than FARs....

Overall, I guess for the time being i do not 'need' to be able to do 200kts its a nice 'want' but its not needed. The difference between 4 hours and 3 hours, is short enough compared to 11 that i can still consider surprise weekend trips with out burning an entire day enroute.

I also have it stuck in my head that planes are like boats; I pay 100k for a 'j' and end up having to sell it for 50k. Maybe thats being over dramatic, but how am I supposed to know right? never owned a plane. I know my car is worth 40% of what i paid for it after only 5 years, so that was the only experience i could relate to. So if you can follow my logic, if i lost 60% on a plane, i would rather lose it on something that i plan on keeping for a very long time. If you are saying that no, they hold their resale value better, then im not so reluctant to add another step in the process. Perhaps others can chime in on this?  

The reason behind asking about the Ovation and Bravo were because they already have all of the Avionics upgrades. I had been told several times, get a plane that has all the Av's you want in it because adding them later is not only expensive, its instantly a 50% depreciation on the money you spent. Again maybe others can chime in here. 

My intention with Auto Pilot was always to have a full glass plane. I completely agree with you that as a new time pilot, having a auto pilot can buy you the time to focus on other things in the plane other than straight and level. The last round of training we did, we were playing with the auto pilot in the Cirrus, 2 clicks and the thing got us back to the airport, put us in a holding pattern and allowed me to communicate with ATC with out worrying about keeping the plane going in the right direction. I know its a cheat and not a shortcut to learning, but man, it was nice to have for once.  I also mentioned how invaluable flightscope is; The ability to pick up on transponders up to 5 miles away and alt is just awesome. I think it reduces the chances of mid air 100 fold. 

@everyone

So allow me to circle back; 

Is the suggestion right now to completely skip Mooney's all together? because that's the vibe i am starting to get. That Mooneys are more of a phase 2 plane and I'm still in phase 1. Or is it just a turbo being to much and not so much the complex part? OR was it just talking about the Rocket specifically that worried everyone? I guess i am not quite sure on this as there has been a lot of conflicting advice. 

 

 

[Marauder]

Just now, Samurai Husky said:

After taking a break from work, and posting, i decided to go back and re-read every post everyone made, my responses included, just to see if maybe i was over reading what people were saying.  -- thanks for doing that. It says a lot about you!

@dfgreene61

 

So allow me to circle back; 

Is the suggestion right now to completely skip Mooney's all together? because that's the vibe i am starting to get. That Mooneys are more of a phase 2 plane and I'm still in phase 1. Or is it just a turbo being to much and not so much the complex part? OR was it just talking about the Rocket specifically that worried everyone? I guess i am not quite sure on this as there has been a lot of conflicting advice. 

 

 

To answer your question, no! It doesn't mean taking the Mooney off of the table. The plan you laid out earlier made sense. Get some stick time on rentals while you are checking out Mooneys (and all those other brands that we do not speak of here  ). Once you get a sense of your flying skills and the kind of planes out there, then is the time to make the choice. 

[PMcClure]

1 minute ago, Samurai Husky said:

After taking a break from work, and posting, i decided to go back and re-read every post everyone made, my responses included, just to see if maybe i was over reading what people were saying. Outside of just a few of them, I feel that in general there was truly a lot of good information in there. Believe it or not, you have changed my mind on several things, which as you can tell, is NOT an easy thing to do. Before joining this forum, i was probably a month away from buying a Rocket; The more we went through this exercise, the farther i started to push things out and the more subjectively i started to look at things. 

That being said, I am willing to take 200kts off the table. If it is truly that difficult to do; then nows not the time to do it. I thought that with the cost of planes (acquisition, maintenance, oh etc) that it would be better to buy something that will fill the mission, rather then lose on a step up program. From that perspective i was willing to get a faster plane and govern it until i could fly it proper. But, if what everyone is saying is true and its nearly impossible for a newly minted pilot to pick up; then i am willing to let it go a little. 

 

@dfgreene61

Thank You; That is the type of post i was looking for;

I know that others were recommending the 'J' as well. Is there are particular reason, or is just because its a bit slower and so buys you more time to mess with everything? You also mentioned the Arrow, which i do not know much about. I would have to do more research into its abilities as well. I feel like my brain is filling up with more airplane specs than FARs....

Overall, I guess for the time being i do not 'need' to be able to do 200kts its a nice 'want' but its not needed. The difference between 4 hours and 3 hours, is short enough compared to 11 that i can still consider surprise weekend trips with out burning an entire day enroute.

I also have it stuck in my head that planes are like boats; I pay 100k for a 'j' and end up having to sell it for 50k. Maybe thats being over dramatic, but how am I supposed to know right? never owned a plane. I know my car is worth 40% of what i paid for it after only 5 years, so that was the only experience i could relate to. So if you can follow my logic, if i lost 60% on a plane, i would rather lose it on something that i plan on keeping for a very long time. If you are saying that no, they hold their resale value better, then im not so reluctant to add another step in the process. Perhaps others can chime in on this?  

The reason behind asking about the Ovation and Bravo were because they already have all of the Avionics upgrades. I had been told several times, get a plane that has all the Av's you want in it because adding them later is not only expensive, its instantly a 50% depreciation on the money you spent. Again maybe others can chime in here. 

My intention with Auto Pilot was always to have a full glass plane. I completely agree with you that as a new time pilot, having a auto pilot can buy you the time to focus on other things in the plane other than straight and level. The last round of training we did, we were playing with the auto pilot in the Cirrus, 2 clicks and the thing got us back to the airport, put us in a holding pattern and allowed me to communicate with ATC with out worrying about keeping the plane going in the right direction. I know its a cheat and not a shortcut to learning, but man, it was nice to have for once.  I also mentioned how invaluable flightscope is; The ability to pick up on transponders up to 5 miles away and alt is just awesome. I think it reduces the chances of mid air 100 fold. 

@everyone

So allow me to circle back; 

Is the suggestion right now to completely skip Mooney's all together? because that's the vibe i am starting to get. That Mooneys are more of a phase 2 plane and I'm still in phase 1. Or is it just a turbo being to much and not so much the complex part? OR was it just talking about the Rocket specifically that worried everyone? I guess i am not quite sure on this as there has been a lot of conflicting advice. 

 

 

Get your PPL behind you and +100 hours the come back around and ask about buying any airplane. You'll get lots of constructive input. Start training for your IR so you know what avionics you really need. 

[aviatoreb]

Hi Samurai,  I think people mean well here.  BTW, whatever airplane you buy I would encourage you to read often your airplane type forum.  I read once a study that COPA did (Cirrus forum) and they found that their regular forum readers enjoy a 4 times better average safety statistics than the average of the non forum readers.

Sometimes the forum get's "spicy" but by and large there is good information from good and well meaning people who know things that anyone of us might not. As a group collective we are smarter than any one of us.  It takes a village.

I fly a rocket.  I transitioned to the rocket at 350 hrs and having had my instrument rating for 250 hours and having owned my previous airplane the Diamond DA40 for about 275 hrs.  The Diamond is not so much different than the SR20, certainly not in speed or complexity, albeit a bit more forgiving.  I can say, about 5 hrs into the transition training, I had a strong feeling of wondering if I had made a huge mistake and it was too much airplane.  Things just happen faster.  It is slipperier.  And when you go up to FL21 (ok alpha you need it), or even 17000, you better have an instrument rating because there will be 3 or 4 miles to come down through and you would be surprised how often weather might form below you.  And things just happen faster in the pattern.  I eventually became very comfortable in my machine and I love it, but it is always  machine to keep awake and current.  Now I have commercial and ifr, and I have about a thousand hours, just enough to be dangerous to myself, and I am well aware of that and resisting bravado that comes from premature confidence.

We all had a good friend here who died about 4 months ago, in his rocket.  Houman.  I knew him personally as he lived about 40 miles from here and we had lunch and so forth, and corresponded.  He also had transitioned to the rocket early in his PPL career and it was still new to him, and did not yet have an instrument ticket.  He was a wonderful guy, and sincerely read, breathed and practiced airplane.  He was a relatively low time pilot.

We just wish you well and I think that is where the feedback is coming from, whether softly spoke or spicy.

Edited March 29, 2016 by aviatoreb

[Andy95W]

For myself, I'm sorry if my 2 comments came across as unduly harsh.

I remember the mistakes and errors in judgement I made 20 years ago with 400 hours experience in my M20C.  If that had been a Rocket, I would've been dead.  I don't want to see that happen to anyone.

Edited March 30, 2016 by N1395W

[Hank]

Thanks for hanging around, Samurai.

its possible for a dedicated pilot to transition into a Mooney fairly early. BUT the earlier you make the transition, the simpler the Mooney should be. Several of us bought C models very early, no turbo, no cowl flaps, no oxygen and the familiar carburetor. 

A J is the most efficient 4-cylinder Mooney, with many aerodynamic improvements over the F that it was developed from. It is also the base airplane for the Rocket and Missile, with only an engine, prop and cowling change (plus lots of extra power!).

when you were a teenager learning to drive, how many of your friends went from driving class to a Corvette? Leaping more or less straight into a Rocket will be more of a leap, as Corvettes only go left and right while airplanes also go up and down, and Mooneys accelerate very rapidly while descending. I generally pick up ~30 mph, and my 180 hp C is considered a slow Mooney.

So hang tough,  study,  fly as often as possible, and plane shop in your spare time. There's no rush to,buy. And no, used planes don't depreciate as fast as cars, especially older planes. My plane is probably down ~20% from when I bought it in 2007, but most of that happened in 2008 alone.

see ya round the patch!

[bonal]

Just a point on the C150 through C172 my first instructor a man with more experience than you can count including combat Vietnam loved flying my C150 he said true trainers are the most demanding yet at the same time forgiving airplanes. What he meant by that is they teach you to fly right and even if I was just a tiny bit off the numbers he could feel it and knew exactly what I was doing wrong could take the controls and snap the plane into perfect coordination even though I thought i was on target. Flying an underpowered airplane teaches better energy management because you can't just add power to make up for a bad choice also you really learn how important density altitude is because performance is degraded so much. An example I like to use in the racing world is in moto GP the guys that win championships all came from winning on the underpowered 125 class they learn how to manage energy since they don't have much, to carry more speed ride more efficiently then when they move up in class they dominate over the guys that come from the superbike ranks because they never learned the lessons taught in the slower low powered class. I think if you spent some time dogging around in a 150 or better still a conventional geared airplane you would become a better pilot in the Cirrus. Just my humble opinion. 

[Danb]

S Husky, in the last hour you received decades of awesome knowledge. 

I wouldn't try to tell you what to do, I like the advice in the last hour of what has occurred to many of us here and unfortunately now gone.

I transitioned to a Mooney J just after my ppl, and got my instrument rating in the J . Easy to do. I flew my '77 J for about 3 yrs, got a new '88 J and flew it until 2006 and bought a '05 Bravo. It was to late for me and a twin, wanted the speed for vacations and retirement, I was ready to move up in 1988 but didn't until 2006.  

Hang in there, have fun with the forum ( even with a lot of tight asses on board) and just assimilate the responses for what they are. Don't let a few of the folks drive you away, that's found in every walk of life.

[kevinw]

I don't think it's going to be a problem transitioning to a Mooney just don't try to run before you walk. We all were in your shoes at one time and it's exciting to think about all the different planes we would like to fly. Fact of the matter is there's a learning curve in aviation. What you proposed can be done, but only with a huge unnecessary risk. The CFIs that chimed in know what they're talking about and you should take their advice seriously. As the saying goes, there's nothing scarier than a student pilot with a lot of money. This is why the accident rate in Cirrus' and TBMs are so high.

Here's what I would do if I were you. Buy a well equipped J, do some avionics upgrades if needed but don't go crazy because, as we all now know, this is going to be a stepping stone. As dfgreene61 said, put an Aspen PFD in if you really want some glass, a good GPS if needed and pick an airplane with a dual axis autopilot. If you do this, you will have a solid IFR airplane with good resale down the road. Plus, you'll save a ton in fuel and maintenance over the 2-3 years of ownership versus the others. Those savings can be applied towards the next plane. I know I'm biased but I love my J. It does everything I need it to do. I have no real need to go above 10K feet but I can if I need to; it runs cheap, flies fast and has good payload with full fuel. It's not a beginners airplane by any means but coming from an SR20 the transition should be easier.

I also apologize if I came across harsh. I too made early mistakes. A couple of bounced landings that would've been a prop strike in many other models. Lucky for me the nose on a J is much lighter than the K, R, M, etc and I was able to hold it off. No one here is giving you bad advice and they all have your best interests in mind. Rent for a while, build time and truly learn and understand the fundamentals of flight. One thing all us pilots have in common is we really hate accidents. Fly Safe!

Kevin

[Yetti]

The F models after some year have back seats that are remove able. my 75 F has removable seat backs.  There is also a mod you can do for older models so the rear seat lays down.

To all the other long posts here that I did not read.  GA planes are as safe as their pilots.

[Samurai Husky]

This is exactly what i needed people to say! Honestly this is the best way to approach people; Give them stories of past experience, explain why their thinking is wrong using the story as a base. Then offer alternatives and why those alternatives are a better choice. This is all i was looking for

 

I know that some people tried to do that earlier, but i think my brain had already gone on defense because i was waiting for someone to clearly explain why my thinking is wrong. I tend to do that, so I apologize, i get fixated on waiting for a specific question to be answered before i can move on and even though answers to other questions were coming in, i was probably ignoring them to some extent and hyper focusing.

Though im starting to get conflicting answers  some people are saying transition asap, some are saying put more time in. So, a bit confused there.

Not to hyper focus on the plane, but a 'J' will get from KPAO to KFFZ right? its about 600nm with out adding in any course corrections around KPHX. When i look up the spec's on a 'J' it says its max distance is 680nm and with reserves, that seems to be cutting it really close. I am sure there might be models with extended range tanks. But wanted to make sure before i start doing to much research.

 

@Hank" when you were a teenager learning to drive, how many of your friends went from driving class to a Corvette" 

This is probably a bad example for me. We were the poor people in a rich school district; so it wasn't uncommon for kids at my high school to be driving v8 mustangs, Camaro's etc. The girls all drove Wranglers. Our parking lot looked like a Jeep dealership. I, was on the bus. My friends dad owned a car dealership, he had a mustang that was insane... Meant nothing during rain or snow though. Being from chicago, it was really funny watching them park in the winter time. I swear the body shop in that city could have gone public with the amount of business they did.

but i understand your point.

AT Everyone.

I know its looking like im running before I'm walking, but my instructor keeps canceling and its all I can do to not go crazy. I would probably less annoying if i was allowed to solo and could actually get my flying fix when ever I wanted (weather permitting); Earlier i said i was only flying once a week, believe me, this is not by choice, I normally have 3 lessons scheduled per week, but on average, only 1 has actually taken place. This leaves too much time in between to do research, ask questions (be annoying) etc.

[Danb]

S.H. Take a read of 201ers post of his adventure last week in his J. NY to FtPierce Fl. Non-stop, along with his trip in total. It give you a great idea what a J can do.

[MB65E]

I have been following along. People care! Keep the fire alive. Be smart, work with the best, and keep learning. People were just telling you to slow down. It has all the signs of an NTSB report written already. 

With the right training anything is possible. However, It just takes time to learn from your experiences and mistakes. 

That said, you have obviously thought about the responsibility of ownership! Pull the trigger!

It would be hard to beat the performance of an M20M. I have flown this airplane it was nice 4 years ago and Andy has made it nicer. It would be a highly capable machine that will demand an open mind an wallet. Give him a call. You won't be disappointed. If I had a budget like yours I would buy this airplane.

Please be smart!! Get your instrument ticket as soon as you can. Fly the system. Don't skimp on training or maintenance.  Hire Dmax to do the prepurchase and annual. Then Hire Don K to do 25-50 hours in it. Don't beat up Andy either. 

Then fly with Don some more!

Try not to loose sleep when the insurance company comes back at $4-5k per year. 

Thats about it!!

-Matt