What should i get?

[N601RX]

You can take the written any time you want.  All you need is the instructor to sign saying you are ready to take it.  It is valid for 24 months.

[Seth]

Lots of good advice so far.

Switch to a 172 or PA-28.  Less expensive.  Solo.

Get your written done.  This can happen before or after you solo.  Get it done and study when not flying.  Take practice tests.  Knock it out.

Buy an iPad Mini and get Foreflight or Garmin Pilot for your pilot app (I suggest Foreflight but that's what I like and it now works with higher end Garmin product using flight stream or Bluetooth depending on the in panel device).  This will be your charts and planning tools device.  However, it's also for your future airplane where you can get weather / some aircraft in the sky with Stratus/similar.

Once you've soloed, keep training in the 172 or PA-28.  Keep training.  Get better at landings. Get PPL or . . . 

After soloing and really working the landing circut in training aircraft.  Buy a M20J or C182.  Don't do a ton to the panel and complete training.

Do not stop training while looking at / purchasing aircraft.  Still rent and train until you have your aircraft.

Then finish up PPL or if you get your aircraft after PPL, start your IFR training in your airplane.

You'll be at 150 hours in no time.  250 faster than you think.

Then reassess after two years and 250-300 hours either at that point investing in updating your airplane to your liking or selling and buying something faster/bigger/pressurized/more powerful with most of the avionics you already want installed so you don't sink money in you won't get out.

Again, looking forward to hearing your development over time.

Learn the basics in a trainer.

Keep us up to date and good luck.

Good luck! 

 

-Seth

 

[carusoam]

Some people used to wait near the end, to time their peak knowledge of details to match the oral part of the flight test.  

Learn it once early on, the real important safety stuff stays with you forever. Short runways, hot days, accelerated stalls, heavy loads, that kind of stuff...

The oral part of the flight test doesn't have enough time to cover all the detail.  The check airman isn't trying to make you fail.

Best regards,

-a-

[Samurai Husky]

So i guess i meant the oral; I think the written/knowledge are the same thing. Which ever is the multiple choice test; that is the one i am signed up to take. 

I would like to do the oral (the 3 hour interview) before doing solo or check ride. But it sounds like they go hand and hand. 

I might switch over to the PA-38 for solo; Like you said, its cheaper and available. I cant vouch for if they will let me take the SR20 (though i think they will because there have been times that as soon as we landed there was someone way younger than me standing waiting for the plane); Something to ask about; 

 

[bonal]

Sometimes I say ahh I've added what I can but then I read more and think perhaps I'll chime in once again. As for me 5 years ago took the written pretty early on and did way better than expected of myself as I've never been good at testing. I believe you must pass this before you can get signed off to solo. I missed three questions when I went for my check flight the oral was based on the three questions I missed in the knowledge. As for your dissertation on Bay Area traffic and weather all true but (and I don't know where you live) but I really think you would do better at perhaps LVK the weather there is almost perfect every day after 0900 and the practice area is just on the east side of Mt Diablo and can be reached in a C 150 or 172 in less than 5 minutes. Now getting back to the whole technology In my airplane thing. My 150 came with a G296 nothing special but my instructor said that thing will not be used during my primary training. We used paper charts and he taught me pilotage dead reconing and old school flight planning. I had to use the tables and hand computer for winds and fuel and duration etc. Had to learn to figure out where I was by identifying things on the ground and to use my single VOR to cross reference radials. As a VFR in clear flying you have the best glass there is its called a window.  As you have indicated your work schedule is flexible and you know the traffic patterns so how long really to get to Livermore. Just throwing it on the fire.

[Seth]

1 hour ago, Samurai Husky said:

So i guess i meant the oral; I think the written/knowledge are the same thing. Which ever is the multiple choice test; that is the one i am signed up to take. 

I would like to do the oral (the 3 hour interview) before doing solo or check ride. But it sounds like they go hand and hand. 

I might switch over to the PA-38 for solo; Like you said, its cheaper and available. I cant vouch for if they will let me take the SR20 (though i think they will because there have been times that as soon as we landed there was someone way younger than me standing waiting for the plane); Something to ask about; 

 

Three parts:

Written - Multiple choice on computer (used to be paper) - do this any time once signed off by the instructor - good for 24 months.  

Oral - Usually done at the same time as the Practical in the airplane - this is with the Designated Examiner

Practical - Flight portion - done right after you pass your oral, usually.  Weather conditions sometimes cancel this portion or cut it off mid flight.  You can also fail a portion of the practical, but pass the rest, and then come back and take only the practical again and pass that section.  

 

-Seth

[Samurai Husky]

28 minutes ago, bonal said:

Sometimes I say ahh I've added what I can but then I read more and think perhaps I'll chime in once again. As for me 5 years ago took the written pretty early on and did way better than expected of myself as I've never been good at testing. I believe you must pass this before you can get signed off to solo. I missed three questions when I went for my check flight the oral was based on the three questions I missed in the knowledge. As for your dissertation on Bay Area traffic and weather all true but (and I don't know where you live) but I really think you would do better at perhaps LVK the weather there is almost perfect every day after 0900 and the practice area is just on the east side of Mt Diablo and can be reached in a C 150 or 172 in less than 5 minutes. Now getting back to the whole technology In my airplane thing. My 150 came with a G296 nothing special but my instructor said that thing will not be used during my primary training. We used paper charts and he taught me pilotage dead reconing and old school flight planning. I had to use the tables and hand computer for winds and fuel and duration etc. Had to learn to figure out where I was by identifying things on the ground and to use my single VOR to cross reference radials. As a VFR in clear flying you have the best glass there is its called a window.  As you have indicated your work schedule is flexible and you know the traffic patterns so how long really to get to Livermore. Just throwing it on the fire.

Flexible as long as i am at a computer; I cant just take off during business hours

It's why i post so much Im sitting here waiting for something to finish and I just tab over to do something else.

Livermore might be doable; There is one club out there with a 20J (at only $149 wet TAC?!) and a CFI that does complex. Plus they have a few 172's ($94 wet tach) and an archer that is cheaper to rent then i can at the current place. It would mean taking on another monthly due in order to get insurance, but its not that much. I will see how it goes; If i am in the area i will stop by and ask some questions.I was warned about joining small groups because they are sometime not all that financially sound.  The place i just looked at wants $2500 'refundable' deposit and $80/m; 

 

[bonal]

That sounds like a club what about a flight school I think there is at least one it's where I do my unusual attitude training. 

[Marauder]

1 hour ago, Samurai Husky said: So i guess i meant the oral; I think the written/knowledge are the same thing. Which ever is the multiple choice test; that is the one i am signed up to take. 

I would like to do the oral (the 3 hour interview) before doing solo or check ride. But it sounds like they go hand and hand. 

I might switch over to the PA-38 for solo; Like you said, its cheaper and available. I cant vouch for if they will let me take the SR20 (though i think they will because there have been times that as soon as we landed there was someone way younger than me standing waiting for the plane); Something to ask about; 

 

Three parts:

Written - Multiple choice on computer (used to be paper) - do this any time once signed off by the instructor - good for 24 months.  

Oral - Usually done at the same time as the Practical in the airplane - this is with the Designated Examiner

Practical - Flight portion - done right after you pass your oral, usually.  Weather conditions sometimes cancel this portion or cut it off mid flight.  You can also fail a portion of the practical, but pass the rest, and then come back and take only the practical again and pass that section.  

 

-Seth

That reminds me. Isn't June 1st when the new FAA testing formats are in place? I heard the new oral/practical will now be decision skills based rather than just the repeating of regs, etc.

[Samurai Husky]

OMG you are right, just when you think you have it all figured out. 

http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2016/February/23/Changes-to-pilot-testing-and-certification-set-for-June

https://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/acs/media/private_airplane_acs.pdf

 

[Marauder]

OMG you are right, just when you think you have it all figured out. 

http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2016/February/23/Changes-to-pilot-testing-and-certification-set-for-June

https://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/acs/media/private_airplane_acs.pdf

 

Dem be the ones. Wonder how the DPEs will handle them.

[carl]

The Cessna 335 , a non pressurized 340.

if you didn't want the pressurized deal .

If you can afford it . You are right . its perfect.

 

[Samurai Husky]

Well that came out of no where.

I would still stick to the 340a; There are more options for it going forward, IE ram upgrades, turboprop conversion etc; Granted the conversion is 1.6million and rebuilds the entire airframe, but its an option  its also got a better payload, better upgrades and more powerful engines. 

I think what makes people run from a twin is the maintenance. Other than that, it is like owning a personal airliner. I was able to see a few when i was at the twin forums; Its the kind of plane that makes you want to put on a pilots uniform every time you fly it.

I would say after literally 100's of hours of research; The P46 Mirage is a close 2nd; even though its only a single. Its the only cabin single with pressurization and decent payload and range (though some would debate the published numbers); For the price its hard to beat. You can get one for almost the same cost of a P210n; or you can get a full glass, low time, low engine for under 400k, but have the same range, same payload and half the maintenance of a twin.

It really depends on your motivation and mission. But a 340a is a 'forever' plane no doubt; I've talked with several people that all sear by them. Once you get into the 400 series, then everything changes (and prices go up by 33%)

 

 

 

 

Edited April 4, 2016 by Samurai Husky

[Steve Dietrich]

This sounds like worrying about your kids college selection when you have not yet started dating seriously

 

Looking back I would get your ticket,  get some experience and be started on your instrument and then worry more about your missions and the right airplane. 

 

It is great to be looking and thinking but probably premature to be acting. 

I would also put the dogs in a rental airplane and fly them for a few hours to see how then react.  My limited experience is that they will probably curl up and sleep if they are warm.

 

 

As a good friend once commented - owning an airplane is like having a girlfriend who has your checkbook and a crack habit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Samurai Husky]

I hope that wasnt aimed at me... i did all of that research before i came here and was 'reformed'.

i just wanted to share the knowledge i had.

Im going to finish up PPL in trainers, (even if i have to drive to them); I will figure out more once i get past there..

 

[Steve Dietrich]

 

1 hour ago, Samurai Husky said:

I hope that wasnt aimed at me... i did all of that research before i came here and was 'reformed'.

i just wanted to share the knowledge i had.

Im going to finish up PPL in trainers, (even if i have to drive to them); I will figure out more once i get past there..

 

That's a great direction.........   Don't stop thinking about the right airplane along the way.  We have all had fun with the topic and learned from it . 

And yes there is a bit of evangelistic fever in the Mooney tent

 

[bonal]

1 hour ago, Samurai Husky said:

I hope that wasnt aimed at me... i did all of that research before i came here and was 'reformed'.

i just wanted to share the knowledge i had.

Im going to finish up PPL in trainers, (even if i have to drive to them); I will figure out more once i get past there..

 

Fantastic! Something to always remember and something I love about airplanes they all have endearing qualities. Even my little 150 no it's not great as a long range traveler but then you can't (or shouldn't) take a Mooney or Cirrus and get up nice and high and put it into a fully developed spin super fun in the Cessna. I remember one of the best flights At my wife's suggestion we took the 150 up on the 4th of July and circled the county fireworks display at a steady 45mph in a gentle 15 degree turn for the entire show. Having the fireworks going off just a few hundred feet and just barely below us is a view I bet not many have experienced. So if you find yourself in some basic trainer let it put a smile on your face. Learning to fly is about the most fantastic thing one can do try to make it a fun and memorable time.

[Yetti]

Sporty's course has a online testing component for the written.  Technically when you score high enough long enough they will say that you are signed off for the written and can go take it.   My CFII suggested when I had scored 80% three times, he would sign me off.

exams4piliots.com is a good study aid also

[TWinter]

Wow..10 pages of posts and every scenario and suggestion under the sun. Right now no PPL, no prospect plane and no solid decision. I'm sure all the pieces will fall into place for SH as he gets his ticket. This could be a contender for LOP or not, or bladders vs reseal.

Hang in there SH. All the pieces will fall right into place over time. It's good your planning, but I think you will find the right fit with more time.

Not bashing, just surprised at the continued following. Looks like the weather is good for most of the country. We need to get off the computer and go fly our birds..................... 

 

-Tom

[N33GG]

You might want to go ahead and look at a Beech Duke.  That sounds like where you will end up eventually.

[Samurai Husky]

2 hours ago, TWinter said:

Wow..10 pages of posts and every scenario and suggestion under the sun. Right now no PPL, no prospect plane and no solid decision. I'm sure all the pieces will fall into place for SH as he gets his ticket. This could be a contender for LOP or not, or bladders vs reseal.

Hang in there SH. All the pieces will fall right into place over time. It's good your planning, but I think you will find the right fit with more time.

Not bashing, just surprised at the continued following. Looks like the weather is good for most of the country. We need to get off the computer and go fly our birds..................... 

 

-Tom

That's not entirely true. No PPL? well thats true; But thats only a month or 2 away. 60 days is not a very long time from now. 

Prospect plane? Well i have that too! When I am ready for a plane; ie PPL; and I have had the opportunity to fly something besides the SR20; Then i will be better off knowing which way to go. The prospects remain a Turbo 182RG and a Mooney J or O2 (im going to try to get complex endorsement on the clubs mooney, but i dont know if its allowed). But i will want to fly each of them for about 10 hours and see how well i can handle them. Just like a car, i have the feeling that once you actual get behind the stick, you will know if its right for you.

Once I have my first plane, then i just need to fly. Not worry about the next plane. As long as i can accomplish my main mission goals, then that should be good enough for a while. I talked with someone else from the twin forums that knows someone that just bought a brand new Barron as a 0 time pilot. He hired a CFI to baby sit him while he learns the system. The CFI said he will be able to solo in 500hrs. 500hrs! No thanks, I would rather aim lower earn my stripes to get there. Its not like tomorrow they will stop making twins.

Also, this thread has morphed into a new topic and i am very grateful for it. It became not so much a thread about buying something as it is now about mentoring someone. Life would be easy if i actually knew someone who flew besides my instructor. But its just me, on my own, trying to figure all this out. Getting into flying is a very exciting and rewarding experience, but when you actually stop and think about all of the risks, it can stop you in your tracks and make you second guess everything.

 

[Yetti]

Everyone here is excited at your enthusiasm.  We are gently trying to keep you from being the next NTSB report.   Speaking of which how many NTSB reports have you read?  I had read probably 500 before I got my PPL.  NTSB reports are one of the reasons I selected a Mooney.

[Samurai Husky]

I dont keep track, but i am reading them. Every time i look at a new plane model i do a search on the NTSB reports; When you brought up the rocket accident, I had actually already read the report, i just didnt know they were the same until someone mentioned who was lost in the crash.

I tend to only read the reports with a conclusion to the accident. It doesn't help knowing that it went down, what helps is knowing why it went down. 

It seems a lot of problems happen within 10mi of their destination/home airport. Either on take off trying to pull off the 'impossible turn' or landing while running out of fuel.

What I have been learning a lot is, most if not all of these situations were pilot error and negligence, (i consider flying into IFR conditions when you are not IFR rated negligence); I dont want to get ahead of myself because i probably dont know what i am talking about. But i found flying under the hood to be super easy. Ignore whats outside the window and focus on your instruments;  

[TWinter]

38 minutes ago, Samurai Husky said:

That's not entirely true. No PPL? well thats true; But thats only a month or 2 away. 60 days is not a very long time from now. 

Prospect plane? Well i have that too! When I am ready for a plane; ie PPL; and I have had the opportunity to fly something besides the SR20; Then i will be better off knowing which way to go. The prospects remain a Turbo 182RG and a Mooney J or O2 (im going to try to get complex endorsement on the clubs mooney, but i dont know if its allowed). But i will want to fly each of them for about 10 hours and see how well i can handle them. Just like a car, i have the feeling that once you actual get behind the stick, you will know if its right for you.

Once I have my first plane, then i just need to fly. Not worry about the next plane. As long as i can accomplish my main mission goals, then that should be good enough for a while. I talked with someone else from the twin forums that knows someone that just bought a brand new Barron as a 0 time pilot. He hired a CFI to baby sit him while he learns the system. The CFI said he will be able to solo in 500hrs. 500hrs! No thanks, I would rather aim lower earn my stripes to get there. Its not like tomorrow they will stop making twins.

Also, this thread has morphed into a new topic and i am very grateful for it. It became not so much a thread about buying something as it is now about mentoring someone. Life would be easy if i actually knew someone who flew besides my instructor. But its just me, on my own, trying to figure all this out. Getting into flying is a very exciting and rewarding experience, but when you actually stop and think about all of the risks, it can stop you in your tracks and make you second guess everything.

 

SH..It's all good. Looking back at the thread and the different suggestions you have now narrowed down to a J  model as a possibility. I suggested a J or a K model back on page 2 and it was not enough plane for you. I know this thread has drifted all over the place. All I'm suggesting is that it is pretty early to determine  .

SH wrote on page #2: " What does a J or F get you that a 20k Rocket doesn't? When i look at the rocket, i read posts of people flying up high running LoP and getting 200kts at 16gph, when i look at the other Mooney's, it looks like yea they can do 200kts, but at 24gph. 8gph@$5/g is a extra 40/h *4 and that one flight now just costs an extra $160 *2 and thats a extra $320 round trip cost. I know planes are expensive and $320 is nothing, but that doesnt mean i shouldn't consider things like this, right? "

I'm all about enthusiasm. It's great to have options. Keep up the training. I'm just trying to keep up to speed on the next candidate. .

 

-Tom

 

 

[Samurai Husky]

Yea; Its how I am; It was also said i am to analytical. Its my troubleshooting background, when i am presented with a problem i need to look at the entire picture and then start picking off the impossibles from the possibles. Eventually i will arrive at the correct conclusion, it might take a while to get there, but its better than trying things at random. 

The 'J' is a consideration because of my inexperience. People suggested it and i dismissed it because it was slower and had less fuel capacity than a R or K. When i looked at the prices they were similar enough that i didnt understand why i would go through buying a plane and then decking it out with avionics if it didnt meet the main mission goals. But now that i found 'ipad' based equipment that i can use instead of investing a ton into garmins. I know now it will make the trip in 1 go. I really dont 'have' to have pressurization yet. So now 9 days later, i can see the advantages. 

The R is because it is slightly bigger. I was able to find one at the airport where i could look inside and see how much space there was. When people started to question the TO/L numbers, i had too look deeper at that and it may force me to switch airports to Henry Reid which has a longer runway. The R is still a contender because of space, its slightly faster (Which means more training than a J) Its available with all the modern avionics already (though that is a much less selling point now and is more of a nice to have), has more payload and more room for fuel. Its a plane i can keep for 5 years or more and accomplish everything i need to until i am ready for or need a cabin. 

The Turbo 182RG is a contender as a stop gap between PPL and possibly an R or a 305. With it I can build time at a reasonable rates. Its more forgiving so its a day 1 plane to use (ie no CFI ride along) It has the payload and range equal to the R just at a speed disadvantage. I dont have to upgrade the av's, i can get away with Ipads. Its priced the same as a J. So its capable at accomplishing 85% of the mission (maybe more); My fear was that i would spend all this money on a plan, then have it still take 6 or 8 hours to get from here to phoenix. Granted its not something i am planning on in the near term, but its something that i want to do within the envelope of owning the plane. 

Regardless of which way i go, I plan on renting  while figuring this stuff out. My concern with renting is building time; as stated earlier in this thread, the availability of planes is no where what i want it to be. I might have to make a decision based on that. I have a lesson in about 90 minutes. I ended up taking a half day off of work because otherwise i would go another 2 weeks without flying. If its like the club says and its a month to get a plane over the summer, then i have no choice i will need to do something (i am still investigating other schools and clubs). Luckily CFI's are more available than the planes are!

 

 

Edited April 4, 2016 by Samurai Husky