Just how bad is a gear up landing on a Mooney?

[CJpilot316]

I've heard conflicting arguments on this, but how bad is a gear up on these planes? I'm looking at an M20E that didn't quite have the gear latched on rollout, and set itself down. It happened last year, 200 hours ago. Engine had an IRAN, belly skins, antennas and gear doors were replaced by an A&P IA. Looks good, and logs are complete and thorough. Buy or not to buy? I love plane shopping. 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2016 by CJpilot316

[MitchS]

I am not sure what everyone else here will say.  But my plane had a gear up landing in 2005, and I'm not at all concerned.  The engine was overhauled and it got a nice new three blade prop out of the deal.  Now I have a 1968 Mooney with about 500 SMOH and 500 SNEW on the prop.  The key is that the repairs were done well etc.

If you are looking to finance it will impact the value a bit for a few years.  In my cause I bought in 2014, and the bank dinged it about $5,000 in their value ,but now, since it has been 10 years they are back to not caring about it!

Just do a good pre-buy!

[bonal]

I think you will find most posts on the subject are pretty consistent as long as the repairs were done properly and logs are updated the consensus is it should not prevent you from looking into what might be a real good find and if it meets your mission then move into a pre buy to get it all checked out. Good luck

[Hank]

Typical damage is belly skins, belly antennas, blinky light, sometimes the step, maybe the inboard flap hinges. Plus of course the prop is shot and the engine needs to be gone through or overhauled. Happened to mine in 2003; I bought it anyway in 2007. As noted above, for a properly repaired gear up 10 years previously, there is no decrease in aircraft value.

[M20F]

3 minutes ago, Hank said:

As noted above, for a properly repaired gear up 10 years previously, there is no decrease in aircraft value.

There shouldn't be but in reality there is.  A fair amount of people won't look at damaged planes let alone buy one.  I don't ascribe to that thinking but if you buy a plane with damage it does limit your market making it a harder process to sell. 

[C-GHIJ]

On an aircraft of it's vintage, it wouldn't bother me.  Now if it was a newer Ovation there would need to be a substantial price discount for me to consider it. (who am I kidding. I'll never own one).

It would really come down to what was damaged and how it was repaired.

[carusoam]

Some thoughts...

Mooneys are built strong enough to handle typical GU landings.

Unfortunately, not all GU landings are gentle as is possible.  The pilot is in command of this. Some are done without much knowledge of the gear's position.  Some are gently put down, knowing the gear is still stowed.

Mooneys can be rebuilt perfectly after a typical GU landing.

Unfortunately,  Mooneys can be rebuilt hiding all kinds of damage after a GU landing.  Depending on who is making the decisions.

A pre-purchase inspection by a qualified mechanic is the typical method to determine what you are potentially getting involved with.

Expect that a rough landing in the outback that tears the gear clean off, being reassembled by an unscrupulous bad guy, who is going to describe the repairs as fixing a gear up landing.  Hoping you don't do the proper homework...

There are no standards for PPIs.  Not every MSC is alike.  Do your homework on this. Prop strikes are expensive to repair.  The definitions of prop strikes have been recently updated. What used to be an easy run-out measurement at the hub has turned into a 10AMU tear-down and inspect kind of deal.

The other quirky thing is calling a gear collapse while on the ground a GU landing.  This doesn't involve as much energy being adsorbed by fuselage.  There was an unfortunate MSer here that experienced two nose gear collapses.  This is not normal for all Mooneys.

Best regards,

-a-

 

 

[steingar]

If an airplane has been repaired properly (and said repairs are well documented...) and the accident was some time in the past, it should be a non issue.  That said, an airplane with damage history is less desirable than one without, and might need a price break for sale.  On the other hand, as time goes on I think more and more aircraft are accumulating damage history.  They are getting quite long in the tooth.

[Yetti]

As my transition instructor said.  "If you can't get is slowed down for a landing, maybe your gear is still up"   The gear does make pretty good speed brakes, just out of the bottom of the wing

[HRM]

13 hours ago, CJpilot316 said:

I've heard conflicting arguments on this, but how bad is a gear up on these planes? I'm looking at an M20E that didn't quite have the gear latched on rollout, and set itself down. It happened last year, 200 hours ago. Engine had an IRAN, belly skins, antennas and gear doors were replaced by an A&P IA. Looks good, and logs are complete and thorough. Buy or not to buy? I love plane shopping. 

 

 

The greatest damage after a GU on a Mooney is the bruised ego of the pilot and the insurance fine that is assessed on him for eternity.

Oh, the aircraft? That's totally repairable and, in many cases, results in a better bird.

Last note: Al had a gear up in his Mite. He got some guys to help him hoist it up while he lowered the gear. Then he got in and flew off!

[Andy95W]

14 hours ago, CJpilot316 said:

I've heard conflicting arguments on this, but how bad is a gear up on these planes? 

The best airplane to do a gear up landing in is a Mooney, particularly the ones with a one-piece belly.  Easiest to repair without question, nothing but sheet metal, antennas, and nose landing gear doors, all of which are readily available.  Normally no riveting is required.

[MyNameIsNobody]

What you describe was a gear collapse vs. a gear-up.  Sometimes there can be damage to the gear torque tubes/bungees through a collapse/failure vs. landing gear-up.  It just needs good documentation that the rigging and function of the gear are "O.K." With collapse in addition to "normal" gear-up that is generally belly skins, maybe a stringer, nose gear doors, beacon, transponder antenna, flap hinge, prop/engine...and pride that commonly need mending.

[MyNameIsNobody]

And exhaust...

[HRM]

1 hour ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

What you describe was a gear collapse vs. a gear-up.  Sometimes there can be damage to the gear torque tubes/bungees through a collapse/failure vs. landing gear-up.  It just needs good documentation that the rigging and function of the gear are "O.K." With collapse in addition to "normal" gear-up that is generally belly skins, maybe a stringer, nose gear doors, beacon, transponder antenna, flap hinge, prop/engine...and pride that commonly need mending.

Good point, totally different issue and significantly different in damage/repair profile.

[M20F]

I wouldn't exclude any damaged plane the fact the damage is in the books is a positive.  A lot of "issues" never find there way to the log books and people assume no damage history is true.  In all purchases a good PPI is key.  You can wreck control surfaces, bend the spar, crack motor mounts and all sorts of horrific things in a gear up.  Doesn't imply that is true in all cases but find an expert you trust who can guide you through the process.  Caveat emptor!

[HRM]

1 hour ago, M20F said:

I wouldn't exclude any damaged plane the fact the damage is in the books is a positive.  A lot of "issues" never find there way to the log books and people assume no damage history is true.  In all purchases a good PPI is key.  You can wreck control surfaces, bend the spar, crack motor mounts and all sorts of horrific things in a gear up.  Doesn't imply that is true in all cases but find an expert you trust who can guide you through the process.  Caveat emptor!

Good point. There are extensive threads here on MooneySpace discussing the PPI, but if ever there was a reason to have an exhaustive one done by an MSC it is this one.