Mooney's Are Fast

[jonhop]

I was out flying fast today and heard something that sounded like crackling paper or arching and sparking under the panel. With no hint of flame or smoke I figured I'd check under/behind the panel while on the ground with an inspection mirror/camera. When I got out of the plane, I found the rubber lining around the windshield frame was peeling away and was probably smacking the top of the fuselage. I guess N57557 is so fast, it is shedding its own skin... Now I need to figure out what to do about the remaining rubber, as it's peeling in other locations.  

[Guest]

Loose rubber sealant isn't the only problem.  It looks like your compass fell off as well.

Clarence

[DAVIDWH]

Another plus for noise cancelling headsets.

[cnoe]

My J doesn't have rubber like that around the windshield. The E didn't either.

Is this common on some M20's?

 

 

[jonhop]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

Loose rubber sealant isn't the only problem.  It looks like your compass fell off as well.

Clarence

Clarence,

The compass hangs in the middle of that pillar, just out of view....

1 hour ago, DAVIDWH said:

Another plus for noise cancelling headsets.

DAVIDWH, I don't know if I would have heard the noise if it weren't for my Bose A20's...

[jonhop]

9 minutes ago, cnoe said:

My J doesn't have rubber like that around the windshield. The E didn't either.

Is this common on some M20's?

 

 

Thanks for your pics cnoe... I'm not sure if the rubber strips are stock or not.... researching them now. The glass has been replaced, so I imagine that's when they were installed. I'm new to ownership, so I have much to learn...

[cnoe]

Sorry for the not-so-good pic of the J. There's a little rain erosion to my original paint along the edges of the windshield but there's sure no rubber sticking out anywhere.

If yours seems sealed up tight I'd just carefully trim away all the exposed rubber.

Note that I've never installed a windshield in a plane myself, but there are several members here who will likely chime in soon with much more experienced advice.

 

[jonhop]

2 minutes ago, cnoe said:

Sorry for the not-so-good pic of the J. There's a little rain erosion to my original paint along the edges of the windshield but there's sure no rubber sticking out anywhere.

If yours seems sealed up tight I'd just carefully trim away all the exposed rubber.

Note that I've never installed a windshield in a plane myself, but there are several members here who will likely chime in soon with much more experienced advice.

 

cnoe,

Roger... I have the same paint erosion on the windshield edge in spots. The rubber strips appear to be pasted/glued to look like a rubber seal between the fuselage metal and the windscreen...

[carusoam]

The photo provided by CNOE is typical Mooney.  Sheet metal with a small bevel towards/against the windshield.  Not sure about the big round head screws though.

More modern installations used flat head machine screws (or so it looks).

The OP's picture looks like an automotive style installation with a piece of rubber trim covering the gap. Typical of a firebird, at least....

Jonhop, looks like somebody has done some mod while installing the windshield.  Who did it should be noted in the Maint. Logs.  How to get a replacement might be there as well.

What keeps the windshield in place? The firebird used a 3M windshield sealant..?

Best regards,

-a-

[cnoe]

The screws were on a '64 E that I previously partnered in. It was a great (and fast) plane that had the one-piece windshield replacement at some previous point.

I agree that the 201 has a much cleaner installation.

I'm very curious about installation techniques as I will be doing all new glass in mine within the next 3-5 years (prior to painting). I'm not sure I want to go with the THICK glass (not glass actually) due to the added installation headaches but I would like to be a bit thicker as I do see a LOT of birds here near the coast.

I'll be asking lots of questions about this in the future.

[carusoam]

I believe Byron took some nice pictures of trimming the acrylic during window installations a while back.

There have been a few 201 style windshields that have been photo'd and stored in various albums.

Best regards,

-a-

[Hank]

Mine has neither big screws nor rubber trim. You'll have to zoom in, haven't figured out photo editing on the phone yet. 

[Bob_Belville]

Js are different from C/Es. 

I have a J windshield in an E. We replaced the windshield a few weeks ago so I know it (too) well. The plexi goes up and back into a slot. Then a trim piece covers the whole bottom edge. The only screws are in the lower edge of the trim piece. (I'll spare you the details of removing screws and almost inaccessible nuts and old mastic, etc...) 

[HRM]

3 hours ago, jonhop said:

I guess N57557 is so fast, it is shedding its own skin...

This is why Superman could only wear clothes made from Kryptonian fabric, Bob.

[Marauder]

Hank's zoom in:

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Hank]

Thanks! It's a 201 windshield in a C.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Hank

[Guest]

The rubber material is likely PRC sealant.  Sometimes when the window does not fit well against the metal a small bead of sealant is applied around the window to improve the appearance.  It in not really needed for sealing as long as sufficient sealant was applied between the metal and the window.

Clarence

Edited January 21, 2016 by M20Doc

[Bob_Belville]

11 hours ago, cnoe said:

The screws were on a '64 E that I previously partnered in. It was a great (and fast) plane that had the one-piece windshield replacement at some previous point.

I agree that the 201 has a much cleaner installation.

I'm very curious about installation techniques as I will be doing all new glass in mine within the next 3-5 years (prior to painting). I'm not sure I want to go with the THICK glass (not glass actually) due to the added installation headaches but I would like to be a bit thicker as I do see a LOT of birds here near the coast.

I'll be asking lots of questions about this in the future.

I went with 3/16" thickness all around. (Solar Grey from GLAP) That was thicker than the original rear windows and perhaps the door. 1/4" would have been really mean to fit into the slot. A lot of skiving of the edge would be necessary which would involve a lot of cut/test fit/cut/test fit. I'm glad we stuck to the 3/16" for the ws though 1/4" would not be a problem for the other 4 pieces.

N.B., we used PR-1428-B2, a "slow" setting, 2 part "fuel tank access panel" sealant. DMax has been using this for windows for years and the Mooney factory confirmed that they use it for current production.  

[kmyfm20s]

Looking at your first photo it looks like the window fit real nice against the metal. I would just make sure there is sealant between the window and metal then verify it doesn't leak. You are probably okay just removing the remaining flash. 

[jclemens]

M20Doc is spot on, thats a sealant.  Paint shops usually do that to your plane.  It shouldn't be needed to seal, the windows are glued in a Mooney anyways.  Just cosmetic.  

[jetdriven]

That looks like silicone sealer, like Permatex Ultra Black. PRC or flame master fuel tank glue is similar but much more firm and it sticks unbelievably well to anything.  It's a polysulfide.  When I replaced my windshield I used it but a very small amount near the edge only.  Basically I carried the coined edge of the skin down to the glass. 

1/4" windshield is difficult.  The channel in a 77 J model is 3/16 and there is no budging it. I had to mill the edge of the glass down to fit in the plane, but very carefully so it didn't show when installed.  A Dremel tool and a 80grit sanding drum just keep milling down the edge. Im slow and rather dumb so I tried te windshield 30 or 40 times before it all fit real good.  But it sure looks factory.

The upside of this is I can hit a pelican at 200 MPH on one of these air races and it will perhaps not break, or not break as badly.  The crazed 37 year old original not so much. 

Edited January 21, 2016 by jetdriven

[Bob_Belville]

11 hours ago, jetdriven said:

That looks like silicone sealer, like Permatex Ultra Black. PRC or flame master fuel tank glue is similar but much more firm and it sticks unbelievably well to anything.  It's a polysulfide.  When I replaced my windshield I used it but a very small amount near the edge only.  Basically I carried the coined edge of the skin down to the glass. 

1/4" windshield is difficult.  The channel in a 77 J model is 3/16 and there is no budging it. I had to mill the edge of the glass down to fit in the plane, but very carefully so it didn't show when installed.  A Dremel tool and a 80grit sanding drum just keep milling down the edge. Im slow and rather dumb so I tried te windshield 30 or 40 times before it all fit real good.  But it sure looks factory.

The upside of this is I can hit a pelican at 200 MPH on one of these air races and it will perhaps not break, or not break as badly.  The crazed 37 year old original not so much. 

Byron's explanation is spot on as to what has to be done to fit a 1/4" thick windshield into a 3/6" slot. And, at least in my case, the depth that the window goes into the slot varied quite a lot around the perimeter - I'd guess from ~ 1/2 to ~1" - hence his 30-40 times to fit/skive/fit and exactly why I stuck with 3/16". I guess taking a pelican in the teeth has a higher probability than winning a billion dollar lottery but I decided to take that chance. 

[Marauder]

11 hours ago, jetdriven said: That looks like silicone sealer, like Permatex Ultra Black. PRC or flame master fuel tank glue is similar but much more firm and it sticks unbelievably well to anything.  It's a polysulfide.  When I replaced my windshield I used it but a very small amount near the edge only.  Basically I carried the coined edge of the skin down to the glass. 

1/4" windshield is difficult.  The channel in a 77 J model is 3/16 and there is no budging it. I had to mill the edge of the glass down to fit in the plane, but very carefully so it didn't show when installed.  A Dremel tool and a 80grit sanding drum just keep milling down the edge. Im slow and rather dumb so I tried te windshield 30 or 40 times before it all fit real good.  But it sure looks factory.

The upside of this is I can hit a pelican at 200 MPH on one of these air races and it will perhaps not break, or not break as badly.  The crazed 37 year old original not so much. 

Byron's explanation is spot on as to what has to be done to fit a 1/4" thick windshield into a 3/6" slot. And, at least in my case, the depth that the window goes into the slot varied quite a lot around the perimeter - I'd guess from ~ 1/2 to ~1" - hence his 30-40 times to fit/skive/fit and exactly why I stuck with 3/16". I guess taking a pelican in the teeth has a higher probability than winning a billion dollar lottery but I decided to take that chance. 

Bob -- is your 201 mod from Lasar or is it the SWTA version. I often wondered if the STC stipulates what glass needs to be used.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Bob_Belville]

Just now, Marauder said:

Bob -- is your 201 mod from Lasar or is it the SWTA version. I often wondered if the STC stipulates what glass needs to be used.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Lake Aero STC SA3263NM   part list # 310316-001

(The STC itself is at the hangar, and contrary to common misconception, I do not live there. But I'll check unless the details are on line somewhere.) 

[Marauder]

20 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

Lake Aero STC SA3263NM   part list # 310316-001

(The STC itself is at the hangar, and contrary to common misconception, I do not live there. But I'll check unless the details are on line somewhere.) 

Thanks Bob. My plane came with the SWTA 201 conversion. When I look at my glass it sits a bit more pronounced than other Mooneys I have seen with the 201 mod. I wonder if SWTA did their STC with the thicker glass. I do know people who have experience in Mooneys comment mine seems quieter than others.