C/E Model Wanted - 1965 or newer

[mike_elliott]

On ‎12‎/‎17‎/‎2015 at 9:38 PM, glafaille said:

Still Looking!

Touch bases with Jimmy Garrison, he will know of something Im sure.

[glafaille]

Sent All American 2 emails and have called twice.  Either they don't have it or don't want to tell me about it. 

[glafaille]

Going to look at an F model in my price range.  I hope an F will be almost as fast as an E.

[Mcstealth]

Still in the market?

[glafaille]

Yes.  Still looking.  

I thought that finding the right plane would be much easier.  I have only looked at 3 planes but have examined logbooks of 10 or so and have yet to find anything close to what I am looking for at my price point.

Maybe it's the wrong time of year to be shopping for an airplane.

I am looking at an F model on Saturday but would prefer a highly modded C or E.  

Edited January 1, 2016 by glafaille

[orionflt]

On December 10, 2015 at 5:34 AM, Marauder said:

That's what the last steam gauge guy said as he was getting in my plane. His girlfriend told me yesterday he is smashing all his change piggy banks and piling the change up on the kitchen table.

I flew a lot of years with steam and they work. I also am a gizmo guy and have seen the benefit of the newer technology. A recent trip into Leesburg VA VFR was a great example. I'm navigating the entry under the Class B and above the hilly terrain. Having the glass show the B's ring altitudes and the terrain background change from black to yellow indicating my proximity to terrain was just another confirmation that for me, I made the right decision.

Could I have done that with the iPad and steam, heck yeah! But are we going to use "too much money" as an excuse to having fun?

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Is Jack upgrading to an aspen!  

 

Brian

[Marauder]

10 minutes ago, orionflt said:

Is Jack upgrading to an aspen!  

 

Brian

LOL Brian! No, he is still talking about a Toga. With the number of dogs he is flying, I can see the motivation to get into something with more room to carry. When I flew Jack out to Leesburg to pick up the car he bought, it was the first time he was in my Mooney. I think if he stays in the Mooney, he certainly has some ideas on upgrades.  I think he was pretty impressed with how everything was integrated. 

How much do you guys see him? I run into him a lot since we both fly on a regular basis. Every time we meet, we end up smoking a cigar. Unfortunately he is the only one who has them with him all the time. I think I owe him 5 or 6 by now. You should come to visit sometime. 

[Bob_Belville]

On 12/10/2015 at 7:34 AM, Marauder said:

That's what the last steam gauge guy said as he was getting in my plane. His girlfriend told me yesterday he is smashing all his change piggy banks and piling the change up on the kitchen table.

I flew a lot of years with steam and they work. I also am a gizmo guy and have seen the benefit of the newer technology. A recent trip into Leesburg VA VFR was a great example. I'm navigating the entry under the Class B and above the hilly terrain. Having the glass show the B's ring altitudes and the terrain background change from black to yellow indicating my proximity to terrain was just another confirmation that for me, I made the right decision.

Could I have done that with the iPad and steam, heck yeah! But are we going to use "too much money" as an excuse to having fun?

Yeah, and my slide rule and typewriter still work.

[bonal]

3 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

Yeah, and my slide rule and typewriter still work.

Let's not forget the most high tech device of all. It's installed between you ears.

[Bob_Belville]

3 hours ago, bonal said:

Let's not forget the most high tech device of all. It's installed between you ears.

Your unassisted brain will lie to you... in IMC.

[Mcstealth]

On ‎12‎/‎22‎/‎2015 at 3:46 PM, glafaille said:

Sent All American 2 emails and have called twice.  Either they don't have it or don't want to tell me about it. 

I bet they are out on Christmas and New Years holiday. Seems odd that anyone in sales has their phone off to potential buyers.

Lance, do you have Jimmy's direct line?

DF

 

 

[Mcstealth]

On ‎1‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 7:33 PM, glafaille said:

Yes.  Still looking.  

I thought that finding the right plane would be much easier.  I have only looked at 3 planes but have examined logbooks of 10 or so and have yet to find anything close to what I am looking for at my price point.

Maybe it's the wrong time of year to be shopping for an airplane.

I am looking at an F model on Saturday but would prefer a highly modded C or E.  

Patience is the word of the day and don't be discouraged. Good luck.

PM Lancecasper on this board. He may have Jimmy's direct line.

DF

 

[bonal]

6 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

Your unassisted brain will lie to you... in IMC.

True but all the gear ain't worth doo doo without that final data processor up and running in your head.

[glafaille]

Hello gents.  I've been scouring the market for a nice M20C or E for several months now and have looked at a few, flown a couple and looked at more logbooks than I care to for a very long time.  

Here is my wish list:

No corrosion - Probably good!

Low to mid- time engine and prop - Check!

Last Overhaul by reputable shop - Check!

Good Autopilot - Stec or similar, altitude hold preferred - Nope

Bladder tanks or total reseal within last 10 years - Check!

Basic but recent avionics - Quality antiques for sure 

Instruments arranged in "6 pack" order - Check!

Excellent maintenance history - Service Center or FBO - Check!

Serviceable paint and interior - Check!

Speed Mods - Looking for 150 Knot cruise- Probably not. 

Engine monitor with fuel flow and carb temp a plus - Nope 

1965 or newer - Someone told me engine access is easier with later models. Check!

Less than $55,000 - Check!

 

So here is a likely candidate that appears to meet many of my most important requirements:

 

http://www.airmodsflightcenter.com/forsale/N17HT#/sites/airmodsflightcenter.com/files/forsale/N17HT/N17HT_1254-b_forsale_big.jpg

 

Anyone here familiar with this aircraft?  Any idea what I can expect for a cruise speed, 140 knots?  I appreciate your opinions.  Thank you!

Edited January 19, 2016 by glafaille

[Marauder]

Hello gents.  I've been scouring the market for a nice M20C or E for several months now and have looked at a few, flown a couple and looked at more logbooks than I care to for a very long time.  

Here is my wish list:

No corrosion - Probably good! Low to mid- time engine and prop - Check! Last Overhaul by reputable shop - Check! Good Autopilot - Stec or similar, altitude hold preferred - Nope Bladder tanks or total reseal within last 10 years - Check! Basic but recent avionics - Quality antiques for sure  Instruments arranged in "6 pack" order - Check! Excellent maintenance history - Service Center or FBO - Check! Serviceable paint and interior - Check! Speed Mods - Looking for 150 Knot cruise- Probably not.  Engine monitor with fuel flow and carb temp a plus - Nope  1965 or newer - Someone told me engine access is easier with later models. Check! Less than $55,000 - Check!   So here is a likely candidate that appears to meet many of my most important requirements:   http://www.airmodsflightcenter.com/forsale/N17HT#/sites/airmodsflightcenter.com/files/forsale/N17HT/N17HT_1254-b_forsale_big.jpg   Anyone here familiar with this aircraft?  Any idea what I can expect for a cruise speed, 140 knots?  I appreciate your opinions.  Thank you!

Have you looked at Banjo's plane?

For Sale M20E 1964

http://www.mooneyspace.com/index.php?/topic/16931-For-Sale-M20E-1964

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[Marauder]

It's a lot more plane for $35k.

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[glafaille]

Didn't know it was still available.  I sent a PM to him about it.

[Hank]

My 1970 C with 3-blade and 201 windshield and wingtips runs 140 kts and 9 gph block time when properly leaned. Can't fly WOT without significant fuel penalty, just back the throttle off enough to make the MP needle move a hair, then lean away. Sometimes I can go slightly LOP without carb heat since I've been working on the doghouse and the carb heat box. But I didn't pay attention to avionics, upgrades or the price on this one.

On the other hand, a C is not an E. The only real differences between models is the fuel injected engine in the E is a little faster, sips a little more fuel, can be operated LOP, and does not hot start near as easy as the carbureted C. The differences between two planes of the same model will be greater than between a C and an E otherwise.

Edited January 19, 2016 by Hank

[glafaille]

To tell you guys the truth, I'm a little afraid of the cost to maintain the fuel injected engines.  

One day I'm OK with them, then the next day I look through a logbook from someone's E or F model and almost without fail the engine has experienced expensive problems long before O/H.  On the other hand the C model engines rarely have anything interesting in the engine logs.  It seems that EVERYONE uses overhauled cylinders on the fuel injected engines but not as much on the parallel valve engines, just as many install overhauled as new.

[glafaille]

Banjo's plane is still available, and it is indeed beautiful and very fast.  But only 400 hours away from an expensive overhaul.  I'll have to ponder this one for a bit.  

[Marauder]

I think at the end of the day, the decision of what plane really comes down to the individual plane, how well it was maintained and some luck. Also, newer doesn't mean better. There are some well maintained early Mooneys out there that are in better shape than newer Mooneys.

When I looked at the pictures you posted, flashbacks of me dealing with one KX-170 problem after another came back. An even when I upgraded all of that, I still ran into issues with my brand new GTN and 20 year old Narco (installed to replace a nagging KX-170B problem back in the 90s). Laid out another $5AMU to get the universe back in order.

It doesn't matter what you buy, just have enough in reserve to deal with it and an understanding spouse to support it.

As for this C, Air Mods is a decent shop and another one of our members recently bought an E from them. Working out well for him.

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[Marauder]

Hello gents.  I've been scouring the market for a nice M20C or E for several months now and have looked at a few, flown a couple and looked at more logbooks than I care to for a very long time.  

Here is my wish list:

No corrosion - Probably good! Low to mid- time engine and prop - Check! Last Overhaul by reputable shop - Check! Good Autopilot - Stec or similar, altitude hold preferred - Nope Bladder tanks or total reseal within last 10 years - Check! Basic but recent avionics - Quality antiques for sure  Instruments arranged in "6 pack" order - Check! Excellent maintenance history - Service Center or FBO - Check! Serviceable paint and interior - Check! Speed Mods - Looking for 150 Knot cruise- Probably not.  Engine monitor with fuel flow and carb temp a plus - Nope  1965 or newer - Someone told me engine access is easier with later models. Check! Less than $55,000 - Check!   So here is a likely candidate that appears to meet many of my most important requirements:   http://www.airmodsflightcenter.com/forsale/N17HT#/sites/airmodsflightcenter.com/files/forsale/N17HT/N17HT_1254-b_forsale_big.jpg   Anyone here familiar with this aircraft?  Any idea what I can expect for a cruise speed, 140 knots?  I appreciate your opinions.  Thank you!

I looked over the panel pretty closely. It has a basic wing lever (PC system) that has a shutoff switch on the panel.

The Narco DME will be challenging to repair and the Narco LORAN is a boat anchor. The KX-170s and ADF are pretty tired. Look at the faces of them. The KMA-20 is a decent audio panel but doesn't have a built in intercom. And I don't see an intercom in the panel.

I am also curious why they covered the Nav CDIs with the portable GPS.

Look familiar?

BTW - the Mongo yokes can be upgraded to the more modern style. I upgraded mine. There is an AD on the shafts for the Mongo ones.

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[glafaille]

Marauder-

It does indeed look familiar!  I like that panel better than anything I have seen thus far!  That is exactly what I'm looking for!  Where can I find one?

I too noticed the faceplates of the KX170 nav/comms, no doubt original equipment with 4500 hours of flying on them.  The DME and Loran are both boat anchors with the ADF not far behind.

My primary interest is the solid maintenance history, bladder tanks, low engine time and within 10 years of o/h, and decent paint and interior.  Downsides from my perspective are the radios, distance away from me, and price.  All of which can be fixed with varying amounts of money or negotiation.

To tell you guys the truth, there aren't many nice C models out there right now for sale.  I've scoured the market for the past three months and the pickings are slim right now.  Lot's of planes out there with missing logbooks, 30 year old engine overhauls, antique panel layouts, run out engines and antique avionics.  Interestingly, there seems to be a good supply of nice E and F models, just not many C models.

I'm beginning to see that the market is seasonal, might have to wait a couple more months for the supply to improve.

Edited January 19, 2016 by glafaille

[Marauder]

Marauder-

It does indeed look familiar!  I like that panel better than anything I have seen thus far!  That is exactly what I'm looking for!  Where can I find one?

I too noticed the faceplates of the KX170 nav/comms, no doubt original equipment with 4500 hours of flying on them.  The DME and Loran are both boat anchors with the ADF not far behind.

My primary interest is the solid maintenance history, bladder tanks, low engine time and within 10 years of o/h, and decent paint and interior.  Downsides from my perspective are the radios, distance away from me, and price.  All of which can be fixed with varying amounts of money or negotiation.

To tell you guys the truth, there aren't many nice C models out there right now for sale.  I've scoured the market for the past three months and the pickings are slim right now.  Lot's of planes out there with missing logbooks, 30 year old engine overhauls, antique panel layouts, run out engines and antique avionics.  Interestingly, there seems to be a good supply of nice E and F models, just not many C models.

I'm beginning to see that the market is seasonal, might have to wait a couple more months for the supply to improve.

The panel that I posted was my panel circa 2001. I was in my 10th year of ownership. By then, the AI, DG, both Nav/Coms and transponder were replaced. The PC system was removed for an STEC 60-2, an engine analyzer and fuel totalizer were added. I think it is really important to identify your intended mission of plane ownership. That will help dictate some of the features you should be narrowing in on. Local flying VFR on nice day trips is a different plane than one used for cross country IFR trips.

Unfortunately, I think the older Mooney market, as you are finding out, is all over the place. You will find planes that have great cosmetics but the panel came out of Jurassic Park. You'll find others that are close to original and others that have been upgraded to some level.

It is all a matter of continuing the search until one meets your needs or is close enough that a reasonable investment will get you there. Upgrading an older Mooney with an unreasonable investment will never give you anywhere near a full return on your investment, but will make it easier to sell if you elect to move into another plane.

Good luck with the search!

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[gsxrpilot]

I truly think I own and fly one of the best C's around. But to do so, I had to ignore the missing log books. It's a 1964 and is missing all the logs prior to '82. It's also had a couple of gear up's over it's life time. All of that factored into the purchase price, and allowed me to acquire a C with a mid-time engine, great panel, and every speed mod LASAR sells.  I'm glad I didn't let missing logs or damage history keep me away from a truly amazing airplane.

BTW it now has a 330ES Transponder with ADSB out, a GEM G2 engine monitor and an EI R1 electronic tach.