CB question:

[Amelia]

How much should an oil change cost, if I supply the oil and the oil filter? Just curious...Not that it's a problem;  I understand that the poor mechanic has to have a little jingle-money to buy his beautiful old airplanes, sports cars, and big teak-clad sailboat, right?

[OR75]

I would say between two and three hours of work is fair. 

However , it is not high value added work ... So it may seem steep for what it is if the hourly rate of the shop is close to a $100. 

I do it myself and take my time - including leaving the oil drain overnight - but I could get it done in 2 hours . 

[Bob_Belville]

I do my own now but as I recall it was not much over $100 including the oil and filter when I was letting Lynn do it. I don't know the flat rate but I'd say less than an hour for everything. I cut the filter and collect and package sample for Blackstone Labs. (It takes me about 10 minutes to r&r cowling.)

[mike_elliott]

It would probably cost less than calling a plumber out to fix a plugged up toilet, Mimi, but those guys have bigger teakwood sailboats than A$P's do and show a little skin. 2 hrs at shop rate would be fair in my opinion. If they pull a suction screen on a Lyc 360 engine, 2.5 to 3 would be more appropriate, including the paperwork.

[Mooneymite]

Changing oil in your Mooney is about like removing all the panels for the annual inspection.

It isn't very skilled work, but if you have your A&P do it, you still have to pay him for his time.  This is why so many Mooney owners end up doing their own oil changes and owner assisted annuals.  We can work pretty cheap at those menial tasks and we don't feel the pressure of a time-clock hurrying us along.

I'm not sure if your oil changes are more complicated, but on my C, I can do it in less than two hours, but I usually take a lot longer because I'm in no hurry and I like to "look around" while the cowling is open.

[Hank]

^^Yeah, what Gus said. Plus I roam around while the oil drains.  

[carl]

i agree you would be charged about 3 hours . 

what area would determine his rate m 

my guy is 50 per hour  so 150 is what i would expect . 

 

i change my own and it takes 3 hours but 2 and a half hours are just standing around doing nothing ,while you wait till the last drop of oil comes out . 

 

 

 

[Bob_Belville]

Three hours should include a flight before the change to warm oil and a flight after change to check for leaks. 

[jetdriven]

1-2 hours labor to me is reasonable, 3 hours is around 250$ which seems high for a simple job.  I haven't done a 231 but I can do a 201 in an hour start to finish.  

3 hours is ridiculous. You aren't paying for an inspection of the engine.  You're paying for an oil change.  Decowl. Drain. Swap filter.  Fill oil.  Run the engine 1 min. Cowl it up. 

[ryoder]

My IA charges 70 which includes oil if I help him.  I just remove the cowling, hold parts, and do cleanup work at the end.

[Marauder]

1-2 hours labor to me is reasonable, 3 hours is around 250$ which seems high for a simple job.  I haven't done a 231 but I can do a 201 in an hour start to finish.  

3 hours is ridiculous. You aren't paying for an inspection of the engine.  You're paying for an oil change.  Decowl. Drain. Swap filter.  Fill oil.  Run the engine 1 min. Cowl it up. 

I agree. My shop was charging me an hour labor for an oil change.

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[Danb]

When I go to the MSC I get charged about $125 in labor, I'm not sure if it's a flat rate or hourly?

[PTK]

How much should an oil change cost, if I supply the oil and the oil filter? Just curious...

That's not the proper question to ask imo. The proper question to ask is how much value do you place in it. What's it worth to you and what are you willing to pay for it. How much would you want to charge if you were doing it? You always have the option to do it yourself.

To me, although it may be a simple job to change the oil, the value of the service the A&P provides is more than simple. There has to be remuneration and value in it for him as well.

It takes me more than an hour to change the oil and I really don't care for it. I have better things to do with my time and I don't mind paying a couple hours of the A&P's time. I bring him the oil and filter and, on occasion, a cold six pack! He does it more efficiently and pulls the suction screen each and every time as per my standing instructions. I pay him, shake his hand and say thank you for all your help with a smile and appreciation.

They have a business to maintain and they are there when we need them for other things. To nickel and dime him on an oil change is not fair and borders on the ridiculous imho.

Edited October 15, 2015 by PTK

[Sabremech]

Amelia, you're killing me. As an A&P/IA, I'm going to assume you were joking about old airplanes, sports cars and teak boats. I don't know a single A&P that fits that description, but I do know a lot of aircraft owners and pilots who do. Just a quick question for you, do you squawk about the hourly rate you're charged at the car dealer when you get your car worked on? Again, I hope you were just joking. 

[LANCECASPER]

I think the point is that what people are paying according to what I'm reading varies widely.

The post was started just to ask what's fair, not claiming that it should be done without fairly compensating whoever does it. Part of the problem could be that people get coupons in the mail to have the oil changed on their cars for $19.99 and somehow they compare that to an oil change on an airplane. It seems like an hour or two is considered fair, anything more than that excessive if all that was done was an oil change. Seems reasonable to me.

[PTK]

...The post was started just to ask what's fair, not claiming that it should be done without fairly compensating whoever does it...

The question is illogical. 

[Bob_Belville]

It takes me more than an hour to change the oil and I really don't care for it. I have better things to do with my time and I don't mind paying a couple hours of the A&P's time. I bring him the oil and filter and, on occasion, a cold six pack! He does it more efficiently and pulls the suction screen each and every time as per my standing instructions.

OTOH, I like to change my own oil. While the old oil is draining I take advantage of having the cowl off to do a thorough inspection. The valve cover screws usually need a quarter turn tightening, SCAT hoses, wires may be rubbing, clamps may be loose, I top off the hydraulic reservoir, baffle seals get tweaked... I step back and ask "what's wrong with this picture?"  

[Marauder]

OTOH, I like to change my own oil. While the old oil is draining I take advantage of having the cowl off to do a thorough inspection. The valve cover screws usually need a quarter turn tightening, SCAT hoses, wires may be rubbing, clamps may be loose, I top off the hydraulic reservoir, baffle seals get tweaked... I step back and ask "what's wrong with this picture?"  

When I was changing my own oil I would do the same. One issue I never resolved with cowl off was finding a way to clean up the corrosion under the top cowl.

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[Bob_Belville]

 

I never resolved with cowl off was finding a way to clean up the corrosion under the top cowl.

 

I don't think I understand what that is? To the aluminum?

[PTK]

OTOH, I like to change my own oil. While the old oil is draining I take advantage of having the cowl off to do a thorough inspection. The valve cover screws usually need a quarter turn tightening, SCAT hoses, wires may be rubbing, clamps may be loose, I top off the hydraulic reservoir, baffle seals get tweaked... I step back and ask "what's wrong with this picture?"  

The A&P does that as well. And I prefer he looks things over because I'm not an A&P and don't always know exactly what I'm looking for.

[mike_elliott]

.  I haven't done a 231 but I can do a 201 in an hour start to finish.  

 

If you are pulling the suction screen, cleaning and resafety tying, and completing paperwork also in that time you are DA MAN!

[Bob_Belville]

The A&P does that as well. And I prefer he looks things over because I'm not an A&P and don't always know exactly what I'm looking for.

I have a really smart, experienced, and conscientious A&P. He is much sharper than I am about planes and I consult with him all the time. But... it's my butt that takes this bird up in the air and nobody is perfect. A second set of eyes has to be a good thing. I am not seeking to save money or to cut corners, but the more I do the more confident I am about the machine I'm riding over mountains and in the soup. Not everyone is mechanically inclined and not everyone who flies has time to learn to do owner permitted maintenance. I am not judging how those folks address the care of their plane. The owner is responsible that the plane is airworthy even if she delegates the hands-on work to others.   

[jetdriven]

That's not the proper question to ask imo. The proper question to ask is how much value do you place in it. What's it worth to you and what are you willing to pay for it. How much would you want to charge if you were doing it? You always have the option to do it yourself.

To me, although it may be a simple job to change the oil, the value of the service the A&P provides is more than simple. There has to be remuneration and value in it for him as well.

It takes me more than an hour to change the oil and I really don't care for it. I have better things to do with my time and I don't mind paying a couple hours of the A&P's time. I bring him the oil and filter and, on occasion, a cold six pack! He does it more efficiently and pulls the suction screen each and every time as per my standing instructions. I pay him, shake his hand and say thank you for all your help with a smile and appreciation.

They have a business to maintain and they are there when we need them for other things. To nickel and dime him on an oil change is not fair and borders on the ridiculous imho.

Its not nickle and diming. Its paying the fair, reasonable and customary rate for a simple job, and I cant see how 3 hours on a 201 or 231 is reasonable.  We just changed our oil last night, by we, I mean I helped take the cowl on and off, my partner did the rest, which included safetying the oil filter twice.  Less than an hour.  And that includes cleaning off the firewall and about 10 minutes of going all over it looking for trouble.

 

Don't tell me the more you spend the safer you are, either.  Plenty of planes have something go wrong after the 25,000$ annual.  Theres safe, and there's "while we're in there...."

[carl]

Bob,

OTOH, I like to change my own oil. While the old oil is draining I take advantage of having the cowl off to do a thorough inspection. The valve cover screws usually need a quarter turn tightening, SCAT hoses, wires may be rubbing, clamps may be loose, I top off the hydraulic reservoir, baffle seals get tweaked... I step back and ask "what's wrong with this picture?"  

Just a fun question, Where is your hydraulic reservoir ? Do you have any pictures? 

I can't seem to locate mine.

carl

my A&P pulled one spark plug , tested it ,cleaned it , tested it , reinstalled it . in 12 minutes , charged me 12 dollars. then sat i my hangar for two hours talking about airplanes. I dropped off a case of beer the next day.

[PTK]

Its not nickle and diming. Its paying the fair, reasonable and customary rate for a simple job, and I cant see how 3 hours on a 201 or 231 is reasonable.  We just changed our oil last night, by we, I mean I helped take the cowl on and off, my partner did the rest, which included safetying the oil filter twice.  Less than an hour.  And that includes cleaning off the firewall and about 10 minutes of going all over it looking for trouble.

 

Don't tell me the more you spend the safer you are, either.  Plenty of planes have something go wrong after the 25,000$ annual.  Theres safe, and there's "while we're in there...."

As I said "...you always have the option to do it yourself..."

But to have an A&P provide the service need to pay and say thank you.