Time for new engine

[amillet]

I have owned N1084L, a 1997 J for 10+ years. TTAE 1806. Oil consumption has gradually increased from 9 hrs/qt to 4. Regular oil analysis has never shown high metal levels. I changed oil after returning from flying in Caravan to KOSH, and found small metal flakes in filter for first time. With 20 year Lycoming limit for Rebuilt for Overhaul Price Proram coming up (June 2016) looks like it's time to go ahead & order rebuilt IO360A3B6. I haven't received latest oil report yet. Alan Millet

[MooneyBob]

1. I thought that 4hrs/qt is pretty normal.

2. Somebody should define "small flakes of metal" and what is normal.

3. Is compression still good?

4. Will you check the parameters with good mechanic before you pull the trigger?

It's very hard to decide when to start to think about new engine. Some engines has 400 hrs, 4hrs/qt and small metal flakes in the filter. Should they be overhauled?

[ryoder]

Ouch. That Genuine Lycoming is going to be pricey. I'd call Zephyr and get a quote and also,get a quote from your IA doing a field overhaul just to have the numbers. I'm new to this stuff though.

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[ArtVandelay]

I would find out why you are consuming more oil, an engine rebuild may not help. Might want to check out Mike Busch's video on oil consumption.

[rocketman]

Come down here to Mississippi (08M) for your overhaul.  I have a great IA/ A&P that will tear down, inspect and assemble for $500/cyl.  He does EVERYTHING the big boys do and will work with you for the best bang for the buck.  I have done many engine overhauls with him and he has taught me how to do my own.  He now follows me during my overhauls and signs me off.  Overhauls don't have to be outrageously expensive. 

 

Something is not right for $500 per cylinder. Please explain what that includes

[jetdriven]

Iirc the limit for core trade in is 35 years.

[Guest]

Something is not right for $500 per cylinder. Please explain what that includes

That's an outright rip off, somewhere on here you can get the whole annual done for not much more.

Clarence

[rocketman]

That's an outright rip off, somewhere on here you can get the whole annual done for not much more.

Clarence

Are you referring to an annual or an overhaul?

[Guest]

If a whole Annual costs $700, how can a cylinder overhaul cost $500, it must be a rip off.

Clarence

[ryoder]

This company has great overhaul prices and there are some references on this site. http://www.jewellaviation.com/overhauls.htm

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[neilpilot]

I've had Sam and David Jewell do all but one of my Mooney annuals since 1995.  Just picked up our M20C at Kennett today.  They are streight shooters and very up front.  Never had them do an engine O/H, but have had a couple of cylinders rebuilt.  They did a rebuild for one of us Mooneyspacers recently, as well as for a friend's C140, and both seemed happy with the results.

[StinkBug]

If a whole Annual costs $700, how can a cylinder overhaul cost $500, it must be a rip off.

Clarence

 

Either you're joking, or you don't understand what's being discussed. An annual inspection does not include engine overhaul, and overhauling an engine (or even just one cylinder) isn't cheap.

[ryoder]

He is joking.

[1964-M20E]

Unfortunately I maybe in the same boat.   Not quite 1200 SMOH by the previous owner.  I've put abut 270 hours on it since I've owned it.

 

I have been experiencing fluctuations in my oil pressure in cruise flight of 10 to 20 psi on the last couple of flights.  Oil pressure is good on startup 75+ and climb out but once in cruise is starts to vary 70 to 50psi.  Changed the oil and the same thing will open the filter later this week.  Even checked the oil pressure regulator and cleaned it.

[Marauder]

Unfortunately I maybe in the same boat. Not quite 1200 SMOH by the previous owner. I've put abut 270 hours on it since I've owned it.

I have been experiencing fluctuations in my oil pressure in cruise flight of 10 to 20 psi on the last couple of flights. Oil pressure is good on startup 75+ and climb out but once in cruise is starts to vary 70 to 50psi. Changed the oil and the same thing will open the filter later this week. Even checked the oil pressure regulator and cleaned it.

What are you oil pressures at idle? Mine sits at mid 50s at idle.

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[neilpilot]

......... Changed the oil and the same thing will open the filter later this week.  .................

 Probably goes without saying, but when you changed the oil did you also check the oil screen?

[1964-M20E]

cold it will be in the 50s  hot will go down to 40s

 

I seems to do it more when oil level below 7 qts

[amillet]

If engine is less than 20 years since first put in service rebuilt engine is same price as overhaul from Lycoming. About $4500 savings

[Piloto]

Check idle oil pressure after warming or flying the plane. If the pressure is below the yellow arc it could be an indication of worn bearings. Metal finding in the filter and higher oil consumption could be a piston ring failure. If the exhaust stain is dark brown or black it is burning oil. These are signs of an engine in need of an overhaul. When overhauling request factory new cylinder kits. Most of overhauled cylinders don't make it beyond 700hrs and they are prone to crack. An overhauled cylinder can have over 3,000hrs and you will not know it.

 

José  

[1964-M20E]

Its not burning oil and the rings are good.  I did have some issues with oil lead at cylinder bases pulled cylinders and re-sealed with limited success.

 

The pressure fluctuation developed rather quickly a few weeks ago when I noticed while in flight.

[N601RX]

How fast are the fluctuations? Is the oil temp stable?

[aaronk25]

Could you have a gauge going bad? Or s loose wire? Just curious about the little things?

[Guest]

Its not burning oil and the rings are good.  I did have some issues with oil lead at cylinder bases pulled cylinders and re-sealed with limited success.

 

The pressure fluctuation developed rather quickly a few weeks ago when I noticed while in flight.

John,

I recall having the same issue with my first E model. Look into Lycoming SI 1172C, we did some work on the oil pressure relief valve and it cured the problem.

Clarence

[ryoder]

If engine is less than 20 years since first put in service rebuilt engine is same price as overhaul from Lycoming. About $4500 savings

Lycoming factory engines are outrageous. They sent me a flyer for a TSIO520 I think and it was $95,000. The factory isn't even in the realm of possibilities for me.

[1964-M20E]

How fast are the fluctuations? Is the oil temp stable?

 

In a few seconds it will go from 65 or 70psi down to 45 or 50psi and them back up never staying down for very long only a few seconds.  While hot at idle 700-800 RPM it will go to mid 30s.  I expect to see a drop at idle for all engines especially when oil is hot.

Oil temperature is stable right at 200F, CHTs 325F to 350F.

 

It almost seems like oil is being trapped somewhere and then draining back into the sump while at cruise.

 

Could you have a gauge going bad? Or s loose wire? Just curious about the little things?

 

I have the EI oil pressure/ temperature gauge.  I did not check for loose connections but I will.  However, with the electronic gauge I'd think it would be all or nothing.

 

 

I recall having the same issue with my first E model. Look into Lycoming SI 1172C, we did some work on the oil pressure relief valve and it cured the problem.

 

We removed the oil pressure regulator and cleaned it during the oil change.  There were some signs of wear on the ball in there.  I searched Lycoming's site and cannot find SI 1172C do you have a copy you can email me? PM sent