ADS-B Installation Options

[Andy95W]

While at Oshkosh, I started investigating different ADS-B options for my non-WAAS GPS equipped M20C. One of the horror stories being thrown around right now is that you had better equip now before all the avionics shops book up as 2020 nears. As an A&P/IA, I prefer to do my own avionics work and not pay high prices to a shop that I don't need. And good luck getting a slot if you're not dropping $15-20K for a major avionics upgrade.

Right now, Garmin, King, and L3 only sell to dealers (avionics shops). Not sure about Trig, but I have a nearly new Mode C transponder that I like and I don't really want to broadcast my N# and Mode S code every time I go flying.

The good news: Freeflight and Navworx both have ADS-B solutions (UAT) with internal WAAS GPS that they will sell to individuals. The Freeflight is $1995 and the Navworx is about $2400 including antennas.

And they both have STC's that include all the "regular" Mooney models (may not include the M20L or the original M20). I will have to verify this with the manufacturers; the representatives at the show did not have the actual STC list with them.

All of this means that you will be able to have your local A&P/IA install the unit when you do your annual for a fraction of the cost of an avionics shop and no waiting for a slot. And if you do owner-assisted annuals, and can remove and install your interior yourself, you can probably get out for fairly low money for the install. Testing procedures are also able to be accomplished by the installer. Freeflight actually allows you to just let the FAA do its monitoring test to show an acceptable installation.

And who knows what the next few years will bring.

[carusoam]

Sounds similar to the installation of Mode C transponders...

The longer you wait, the better off you will be.

There is a army of people with more money that are willing to be first, to be on the bleeding edge...

The big difference.... Electronics manufacturers have gotten really good at scaling up production to meet demand.

Narco won't be joining in this time around...

Best regards,

-a-

[rbridges]

I bought my KT-74 from Sarasota Avionics and took it to the shop myself.  Garmin wouldn't allow them to sell it to me directly, but King wasn't a problem.

[N601RX]

You can usually get around this by saying it is for an experimental.

[Houman]

I know Stratus is also coming out with one later this year, since I just but a Stratus 2S for the ADSB-In option, I might go with their mode S transponder for the S option, don't remember the price anymore.

 

If only I could get all the traffic and weather I see on my Ipad Foreflight to and have that show on my GTN 650, then that would be golden, maybe it will be in future implementations with Garmin FlightStream 210 and Foreflight integration.

[peevee]

I bought my KT-74 from Sarasota Avionics and took it to the shop myself.  Garmin wouldn't allow them to sell it to me directly, but King wasn't a problem.

I'll be curious how you'll like the kt74 when it's installed. we have a -76 like everyone else so that sounds appealing.

 

King offers an adsb IN module for it, don't they? Did you purchase that or OUT only?

[rbridges]

I'll be curious how you'll like the kt74 when it's installed. we have a -76 like everyone else so that sounds appealing.

King offers an adsb IN module for it, don't they? Did you purchase that or OUT only?

I've had it installed a few months. Unlike my kt76A, it doesn't need to warm up and the display is modern looking. Traffic is displayed on my 430w but I rarely use it. Instead I watch traffic on the stratus/iPad. Installation took all day. It's only plug and play as a transponder. A new tray is required for the ads-b capabilities. Daver also installed one recently, and he likes it too.

[Marauder]

I've had it installed a few months. Unlike my kt76A, it doesn't need to warm up and the display is modern looking. Traffic is displayed on my 430w but I rarely use it. Instead I watch traffic on the stratus/iPad. Installation took all day. It's only plug and play as a transponder. A new tray is required for the ads-b capabilities. Daver also installed one recently, and he likes it too.

The traffic on your 430W is TIS-A, right? Not ADS-B TIS-B.

[rbridges]

The traffic on your 430W is TIS-A, right? Not ADS-B TIS-B.

 

I'll have to plead ignorance on that one, Chris.  I'm really not sure.

[OR75]

I'll have to plead ignorance on that one, Chris.  I'm really not sure.

TIS-A traffic only indeed. It will not be TIS-B .

TIS-A is particularly useful and is here to stay in the vicinity of busy airspace where primary radar is here to stay

Note again , that if you only need a barebone ads-b out compliance only , you do not need to change the tray. The GPS position input and the speed switch pins are on the first connector ( same connector as the 76A )

The second connector ( change tray ) is needed if you want tis-a traffic and audio or altitude alert .

[Marauder]

I'll have to plead ignorance on that one, Chris. I'm really not sure.

Here is a brief description of TIS-A: http://www8.garmin.com/aviation/tis/

Back in the 90s there was an ADS-B like effort to have us all convert to mode S transponders. Eventually that requirement was rescinded. TIS-A was implemented to take advantage of the mode S technology. It was implemented in high traffic density areas like OR75 mentioned. I believe the plan was to implement it across the U.S. Over time a number of the TIS-A capable radars were eliminated.

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[Bob - S50]

I've had it installed a few months. Unlike my kt76A, it doesn't need to warm up and the display is modern looking. Traffic is displayed on my 430w but I rarely use it. Instead I watch traffic on the stratus/iPad. Installation took all day. It's only plug and play as a transponder. A new tray is required for the ads-b capabilities. Daver also installed one recently, and he likes it too.

 

Something to keep in mind.  Trig builds the KT74 for King.  The Trig TT31 does ...not... require a new tray for ADS-B and is a slide in for the KT76A.

[jlunseth]

Yeah, it is TIS-A.

I went with the KT74 its a good simple unit, but it needs a GPS source so not the solution the OP is looking for.

Why not just bite the bullet and have a good GPS installed. Once you have one for navigation you will never go back. I have gone direct many times for as far as the plane will safely travel without refueling.

The shops are not getting backed up. The mandate is still five years away, ok 4 1/2. My shop just did one for me, no wait.

[Andy95W]

I went with the KT74 its a good simple unit, but it needs a GPS source so not the solution the OP is looking for.

Why not just bite the bullet and have a good GPS installed. Once you have one for navigation you will never go back. I have gone direct many times for as far as the plane will safely travel without refueling.

The shops are not getting backed up. The mandate is still five years away, ok 4 1/2. My shop just did one for me, no wait.

If I had your 231 I would put in a GTN 650/750 and never look back.

My M20C is worth about $40,000. I can buy a used GNS-430W and all associated components for about $8,000 and install it myself. And that's still 20% of the value of my airplane!

I already get direct. I tell ATC what heading I would like for direct to my destination (from my portable GPS) and they give it to me.

I have no desire to do LPV approaches, or any other approach, below about 800 AGL. I do that at work. There is nowhere I really need to be so badly in the Mooney that I can't wait a day for the weather to improve. I will always keep a functioning ILS in the plane if the weather changes and I get stuck.

My point was that there are options for those who really can't justify a $12,000 + investment in their airplane, or like me, want to do the work themselves, or as an owner-assisted project with their local IA.

[rbridges]

If I had your 231 I would put in a GTN 650/750 and never look back.

My M20C is worth about $40,000. I can buy a used GNS-430W and all associated components for about $8,000 and install it myself. And that's still 20% of the value of my airplane!

I already get direct. I tell ATC what heading I would like for direct to my destination (from my portable GPS) and they give it to me.

I have no desire to do LPV approaches, or any other approach, below about 800 AGL. I do that at work. There is nowhere I really need to be so badly in the Mooney that I can't wait a day for the weather to improve. I will always keep a functioning ILS in the plane if the weather changes and I get stuck.

My point was that there are options for those who really can't justify a $12,000 + investment in their airplane, or like me, want to do the work themselves, or as an owner-assisted project with their local IA.

I looked back in my logs, and the previous owner spent $49k modifying the plane with 201 parts in 1998. He could have spent less by selling his plane and buying a J. Personally I wouldn't have done it but it just boils down to what you want to do. My plane fits my mission well and I have no plans to sell it. In the meantime, I don't mind adding stuff I want. Neither viewpoint is wrong, it's just eye of the beholder.

[Houman]

I looked back in my logs, and the previous owner spent $49k modifying the plane with 201 parts in 1998. He could have spent less by selling his plane and buying a J. Personally I wouldn't have done it but it just boils down to what you want to do. My plane fits my mission well and I have no plans to sell it. In the meantime, I don't mind adding stuff I want. Neither viewpoint is wrong, it's just eye of the beholder.

I agree, unless I win the lottery and get a LearJet, there is no reason for me to go to something bigger than the Rocket, at least not for the next 10 to 15 years, so I don't mind spending a bit on upgrades. We did put a GTN 650 and then redid the interior, so it is pretty nice now...

[Marauder]

I looked back in my logs, and the previous owner spent $49k modifying the plane with 201 parts in 1998. He could have spent less by selling his plane and buying a J. Personally I wouldn't have done it but it just boils down to what you want to do. My plane fits my mission well and I have no plans to sell it. In the meantime, I don't mind adding stuff I want. Neither viewpoint is wrong, it's just eye of the beholder.

Decisions like modifying a plane beyond its feasible financial return is what I specialize in. My F has treated me well over the years and in return, I have attempted to do the same. My F has seen my kids grow, puppies find new homes, a kid go on a first ride and my Dad, his final earthly based trip.

It's only money... Gonna line your casket in Franklin wallpaper or have them fashion an urn out of 24 carat gold? Enjoy your life and enjoy the trip...

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[Andy95W]

Decisions like modifying a plane beyond its feasible financial return is what I specialize in. My F has treated me well over the years and in return, I have attempted to do the same. My F has seen my kids grow, puppies find new homes, a kid go on a first ride and my Dad his final earthly based trip.

It's only money... Gonna line your casket in Franklin wallpaper or have them fashion an urn out of 24 carat gold? Enjoy your life and enjoy the trip...

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I will never find fault with anyone for spending money making their Mooney better. And yours is a whole lot better.

One of my favorite things about airplane ownership is doing my own work, so I have to skew toward the things I can get without going through an avionics dealer.

But if I can't justify it for myself, then I probably can't justify it to the wife. That causes problems- particularly when she wants to do something to the house, and I want that fancy GTN-650.