A Mooney authorized service shop or a just a reputable shop?

[Ario]

Gentlemen,

 

What is the real difference between an authorized Mooney service shop and other shops?

If you want to have a quality work, do you have to take it to the authorized shop or a reputable shop can do the same? Does the Mooney provide something special to their authorized service centres that other shops do not have access to?

I mean do we have to go always to authorized Mooney service shops or we have other choices too for a good quality of work, respect for the sequence of customers, on time job, organized service, etc.?

 

Thanks for sharing your thought/experience.

 

[Vance Harral]

Over the last 10 years, we've had almost all our maintenance done by a shop without the magic "Mooney Service Center" stamp, and have been completely happy.  We're happy because we know the chief mechanic there very well.  He has lots of experience, has worked on lots of Mooneys, and has the appropriate publications for reference.  I have zero questions about his knowledge of the airframe and the quality of his work.

 

But he'd be the first to tell you there are certain specialty services for which you should use a service center.  For example, he doesn't do fuel tank sealant patches - we had that done at Arapahoe Aero at KAPA, which is our nearest MSC.  The local mechanic was also happy to send our gear actuator out to LASAR for overhaul and 40:1 gears, etc.  So 90+ percent of our maintenance is at the local shop, with some specialty maintenance at an MSC.  I wouldn't question that practice from any other Mooney owner, especially if having most maintenance done at the local shop allows the owner to participate in the work.

 

I guess I think of it a little bit like name-brand vs. "field" engine overhauls.  You might pay a little more and have a little more confidence in and airplane with an overhaul from Penn Yan, Zephyr, etc. vs. some unknown shop.  But not too much more, and you shouldn't assume you can't get burned that way.  Similarly, I might pay a little more for an airplane that had rotating annuals at LASAR, Top Gun and Don Maxwell vs. the owner's local shop.  But I wouldn't rule out the latter, either.

[DonMuncy]

It depends on what you want/need done, and the level of expertise/experience of the shop, or guy doing the work. If you need spark plugs changed, most any A&P con do it well. If you need to chase down an electrical gremlin; it depends. A lot of shops/A&Ps have a lot of experience chasing electrical problems and a lot are not good at it at all. Also, if this is in the gear retraction system, more than likely, a MSC or other Mooney savvy operation has seen the exact problem before. If you have a gear rigging or flight rigging problem, a Mooney specialist is likely the only way to go.

That being said, there are some MSCs who are not too awfully Mooney savvy, and some who are super.

Lastly, for annual inspections, my opinion is that a really good Mooney shop ought to see it at least every few years, as non-Mooney savvy folks may not even notice a Mooney specific problem that would be apparent to one of the great Mooney guys.

Ask and watch what is being said on Moonyspace and you will figure out who the great ones are.

[Danb]

Don..that was well said, since I bought my Bravo new in 2005 I have only had Mooney Service centers work on it, I have had my first few done down at Premiere at at FXE and the last 5 yrs at Webers both I'm quite happy with, I personally like another set on eyes on the plane so I'm going down to Lauderdale next month for the next annual. I became a little paranoid with my 1988 J which I bought new and after a couple yrs. had a local mechanic with lots of experience do my maintenance for about 10 yrs. when I had the repurchase inspection done when I bought the Bravo I had about 10-12 k of maintenance issues which were valid on the J which rocked my pocketbook and confidence in non mooney service centers, some of the issues were potentially life threatening. Since I'm not mechanically gifted I at that time decided to only use MSC...I'm not saying that's the way to go just my rational since my families lives are often aboard. For those of you guys that are mechanically savvy then a non MSC makes sense especially for those that are allowed to help in the annual...

[BigTex]

I personally use two Mechanics.  I have a quality on-field A&P that takes care of the ad hoc squawks that come up during the year. He also does my annuals every other year.  I also use Don Maxwell (MSC) for every other annual to make sure that  the other A&P didn't miss any Mooney specific issues.  Don also handles any gear or rigging issues.

[DonMuncy]

As I see it, the real problem is for an owner to be able to know whether his problem is one which requires a Mooney genius to look at it. I think most of us who have owned our planes for a good while, have a pretty good idea, but I wouldn't bet my life on my ability to know for sure.

[Danb]

Don this is true I've flown Mooneys for over 30 yrs and know my plane quite well, watched and helped a little on my '88 J when it was repaired in my hanger, I change the oil and little stuff..but totally lack the mechanical ability to repair something where my life depends on it.eg. Bought a new propane grill and put it together, but if it was someting on my airplane I would not trust my skill or lack thereof to attempt such repair, I know this thread was in regard to MSC vs. a mechanic, this is most likely up to the owner to ascertain the skill of who's working on the plane along with the complexity of the work.

[DrBill]

My local A&P/AI I really like.  He has a lot of experience.  He ran a FBO in Mineral Wells( or is it Springs) TX for several years then went to AK when business went in the toilet.  He's not afraid to call an expert. Doing my annual, he opened the gascolator and called around to find a new gasket and screen (LASAR I think was is final source).  He knows his limitations (electrical for example) and I help him in that field on several of his jobs.

He even flys with me when we do the before and after annual flight checkout. Last year we went to the AOPA flyin together and had a good time.

Bill

[Deb]

Gentlemen,

What is the real difference between an authorized Mooney service shop and other shops?

If you want to have a quality work, do you have to take it to the authorized shop or a reputable shop can do the same? Does the Mooney provide something special to their authorized service centres that other shops do not have access to?

I mean do we have to go always to authorized Mooney service shops or we have other choices too for a good quality of work, respect for the sequence of customers, on time job, organized service, etc.?

Thanks for sharing your thought/experience.

As noted above, what's most important is the experience and expertise of the people working on your Mooney. Mooney has not had a factory course in a while (perhaps since 2006.) Have any of the mechanics had specific training on Mooneys? (What has the turnover been?) Is there someone at the shop who could competently pass on (teach) that knowledge? And finally, does the shop have the Mooney specific tools and parts needed for the required work?

A shop like Clarence's or Don's where the owner is knowledgeable and freely helps the Mooney community is an ideal type of shop; others may be MSCs in name only.

Big Tex seems to have hit on a winning strategy.

[urbanti]

Some of the work on Mooney's, like engine and avionics, doesn't seem to require a lot of marque-specific expertise.

However, as a previous poster suggested, for anything regarding flight controls, rigging the manual gear, or structural issues, I find the Mooney significantly different from Brand C and Brand P airplanes that I will make the effort to take the plane to a Mooney expert.

While there are a number of A&P's out there with sufficient Mooney experience that I would be comfortable going to them, I happen to live pretty close to Freeway MSC so they get the jobs like the annual and pulling out and refinishing the control tubes, etc.

best

Tim

[midlifeflyer]

Gentlemen,

 

What is the real difference between an authorized Mooney service shop and other shops?

 Paying a fee to Mooney? 

 

If you are asking what is the real different between a shop that regularly services Mooneys and understands their operating and construction foibles, and a shop that doesn't, that's an entirely different question. What certification with respect to anything actually gives you is a clue that they have met certain minimum requirements.

[Robert C.]

I really liked Don's counsel, but will add my caveat based on my experience as a recent Mooney owner. At the recommendation of the seller (a well known dealer in Florida) I used a particular MSC for the prebuy and given that the annual was due 3 weeks after the closing date I had the pre-buy rolled into an annual after I made the purchase decision.

 

Now 10 months on I know for a fact I'll never go back to this particular MSC. There were issues with timeliness and service and I've learned subsequently that the owner got the original MSC designation but hasn't turned a wrench in years. His people signed off on the Annual, but my home town mechanic discovered that in the ELT the wrong batteries were installed, backward(!) and that the G-switch in the ELT wasn't working either. Last I looked an ELT test is part of the annual and was indeed signed off by the AP.

 

Now if I lived in Texas or vicinity I wouldn't think twice and use Don Maxwell all the time given his reputation. So bottom-line...use this forum and other sources to thoroughly vet the MSC. If they are Maxwell/LASAR class... use 'm! If not then you may be better off with a trusted local and maybe every few years make the pilgrimage to someone with a hard earned rep for excellence.

 

Robert

[Oldguy]

I'm fortunate my local mechanic was the Mooney trained mechanic at an MSC before he "retired". He now usually has 1 or 2 Mooneys in his shop every time I go by. He has caught things on my previous planes others missed, so I know he is fairly attentive to detail. But he also has no problem with me having another mechanic look at it if I want. My view is it is never a bad idea to have a different set of eyes look at something with which you trust your life.

 

One difference I have heard stated before is the MSC has Mooney factory parts inventory. They also have a factory trained mechanic that signs off on Mooney related maintenance. Don't know if that means they are the only one doing the maintenance or not.

 

John

[fantom]

....At the recommendation of the seller (a well known dealer in Florida) I used a particular MSC for the prebuy.....

 

Following the suggestion of any seller, especially a FL dealer, is a BIG mistake...as you found out. 

[Danb]

Gary what's your thoughts on Premiere since I'm considering going there from De this yr..?

[GeorgePerry]

I've serviced my Mooney's at both.  There's no simple answer because it's shop dependent.  Find a good shop that knows Mooney's, you trust, and are fair.  If they also happen to be a MSC all the better.

[fantom]

Gary what's your thoughts on Premiere since I'm considering going there from De this yr..?

They are primarily a sales organization.

[GeorgePerry]

Richard Simile is one of the Mooney reps at Premiere and a really good guy.  Yep they have some maintenance but if its not "local" then I'm sure Richard would be happy to make a recommendation as he knows just about everyone in the business.

[Jeff_S]

+1 on what everyone has said regarding mechanic choice. I have a local guy for the general stuff, and go to Cole Aviation in Rome for Mooney-specific things. For example, I needed to have my speed brakes sent to Precise Flight for maintenance, and Joey had fabricated a set of aluminum inserts that we could put in their place so the plane was still flyable while the brakes were in the shop. If I had used my local guy the plane would have been AOG for 10 days. But an engine is an engine, tires are tires, etc., so what's more important is that you trust who is working on your plane...they literally have your life in their hands (which is kinda' scary if you think about it too much).

 

As to Premiere, Richard is a friend and a good guy, and my current plane was originally sold through them (although not to me). I actually looked at Robert's N446PC Ovation with Richard but Premiere wouldn't give me the deal I wanted to trade in my J, and then I found 34S for a steal.  I would say if you are buying, Premiere is as good as any of them. If you are selling, they tend to give less on trade-ins and they want higher commissions and marketing fees than others out there.  If you want a recommendation on a broker with lower commission expenses, shoot me a PM and I'll tell you who I used...they were very helpful in selling the J.

[Guest]

They are primarily a sales organization.

I'm not sure how they are on the maintenance side of thing, but I have a client (who visits this site occasionally

) who had a very interesting purchasing experience with them.

Clarence

[Robert C.]

I'm not sure how they are on the maintenance side of thing, but I have a client (who visits this site occasionally

) who had a very interesting purchasing experience with them.

Clarence

I intend to avoid buying from them again unless I really have to in order to get my (next) dream airplane.

[carusoam]

They do have a strong marketing program...

I get a weekly email asking me if I want to trade up.

Can't wait to see what an O4 is going to look like...

Best regards,

-a-

[Danb]

I appreciate everyone's comments on MSC's in particular Premieres great reason to be a part of this wonderful forum..nonetheless since I'm adamant re: having another set of quality eyes on my plane I just booked DMax 1200 miles away. Hopefully my experience will be as good as everyone else states re: DMax....

[ryoder]

I go with the local reputable shop and my on field A&P.  He just fixed my vacuum pump for $50 labor and charged me his cost for the part.  For that $50 he ordered the part, returned my core, went to my hangar, replaced the pump, signed the logs, and locked the hangar door behind him.

[Guest]

I go with the local reputable shop and my on field A&P.  He just fixed my vacuum pump for $50 labor and charged me his cost for the part.  For that $50 he ordered the part, returned my core, went to my hangar, replaced the pump, signed the logs, and locked the hangar door behind him.

He must have another source of income, at those rates he isn't making his money in aviation.

Clarence