iPad Power Charts... Would you use them?

[dtoelke]

Hey all, I haven't been able to find an app that contains power chart calculations and am considering making my own.  Before I do I'm curious if anyone other than myself would find it useful.  I have a decent amount of programming experience but there are some initial development costs to get in on the apple marketplace and I first have to justify it to myself.  I'd also have a lot of extra motivation if I knew it was something that would be useful to others.

 

I currently just have a couple of power settings at standard temperatures in my head that I use, but it would be nice to have a quick and easy confirmation especially in non-standard conditions.  This would be for those people like myself who find pulling out the charts a hassle and have an iPad in front of them anyways.

 

Thoughts?

[carusoam]

Yes.

I use my iPad as the source of my power setting chart.

I also use the magic number of adding RPM/100 and MP.

One day, I'll have a fancier JPI to do the calculation for me.

Mooney performance calculations like T/O and Landing distances with density altitude would be nice!

Best regards,

-a-

[N201MKTurbo]

I agree that a complete set of performance data would be useful. I would include W/B so you would have the whole operators manual in an app.  you would also need some simple E6B methods to get the correct T/O and Landing numbers. I would be more diligent about running the numbers for every flight if I had an app for that.

 

I have written software like this before. it can be harder then you might think. A lot of the stuff from the manuals is not linear and you cannot easily fit a function to the data on the charts. You have to make a giant table lookup class that has the data points from the charts. This would need to be validated to give the same results as the charts in the manuals. The software could do a better job of interpolating between the lines.

 

I would craft the code so it could be re-used for any make and model of aircraft.

 

Give away the app with C150 data and sell the database for the other airplanes through your own server. You can sit at home when you are bored and make databases for other airplanes. 

 

Mooney databases would cost $0.50 because you love us!

 

King air and Citation databases would cost $100.00

 

Don't forget about the Android folks...

[cujet]

There is an iPhone app called IO360. It might suit your needs. 

[jrwilson]

I would order one

[xrs135]

I would use it.

[jetdriven]

Hey all, I haven't been able to find an app that contains power chart calculations and am considering making my own. Before I do I'm curious if anyone other than myself would find it useful. I have a decent amount of programming experience but there are some initial development costs to get in on the apple marketplace and I first have to justify it to myself. I'd also have a lot of extra motivation if I knew it was something that would be useful to others.

I currently just have a couple of power settings at standard temperatures in my head that I use, but it would be nice to have a quick and easy confirmation especially in non-standard conditions. This would be for those people like myself who find pulling out the charts a hassle and have an iPad in front of them anyways.

Thoughts?

If you have an intercooler then you'll need to know the IAT. And it's relationship to the stock IAT. Then the idea all those MP/RPM charts only relate to ROP power settings. Subtract 3-10% depending on how lean you run it.

[Jerry 5TJ]

Maybe a new JPI model will have Bluetooth so an app like FireFlight will know exact engine performance real time.

[Bob - S50]

I hate to be a killjoy but I for one would not use it.  I don't care if I set a precise power.  I just climb to cruise altitude, set either MP + RPM/100 = 47 or WOT, 2400 to 2700 RPM depending on how fast I want to go, and then lean to LOP.  I don't care if it turns out to be 55% or 70% as long as my CHT's remain under 400.

 

Bob

[midlifeflyer]

I agree with Bob. Cruise performance is, to me anyway, not an exact science and ballpark without running too hot is close enough for me.

Takeoff and landing performance calculations are nice but I don't usually fly into airfields where I need to calculate them. My checklists have takeoff performance over an obstacle numbers at max gross for sea level and one much higher density altitude - usually the highest one on the POH performance charts. i doubt I've needed to do a specific calculation more than a handful of times in more tha 25 years of flying, even when I lived in Colorado and regularly flew in the Rockies and, for those I have a ballpark Excel calculator with a nice fudge factor built in (I may have gotten it here).

Weight & Balance is definitely an important consideration and used far more, but in addition to stand-alones, a number of EFB apps already have them.

That's not, btw, a "don't bother." I've done my share of projects like that for myself and they are fun to do. Some turned out to be pretty useful and I contunue to use my biggest project of this type today.

[carusoam]

Taking Midlife's comments into perspective with mine...

Real performance data calculations can be compared to real life performance measurements using WAAS data.

It would be helpful to compare actual vs projected numbers to detect any declines in performance.

It would really be helpful to minimize mistaken use of fudge when factoring T/O distances...

Having an APP that can project performance and one that can measure performance, would be a very strong tool.

Collecting enough data for your plane would lead to minimum fudge factors.

Part of this idea is having useable POH data and the ability to measure the environment (temp, pressure, winds).

How can we get the experience that a pilot like MideLife has and transfer it to the new Mooney pilot before he takes off into a high density altitude environment without knowing it?

Best regards,

-a-

[midlifeflyer]

How can we get the experience that a pilot like MideLife has and transfer it to the new Mooney pilot before he takes off into a high density altitude environment without knowing it?

Best regards,

-a-

Agreed, as a data experiment.

But my experience with high density altitude suggests flatland pilots who have trouble with it do understand the numbers. What they don't understand is technique and how those numbers affect the aircraft and the actions they take in the cockpit. The publicized takeoff accidents I've learned about and the errors I've seen the times I've instructed transient pilots when living out there haven't been about running out of runway, they have been about trying to use flatland technique in terms of leaning, rotation, deck angle, etc.

[yvesg]

One risk you have to consider if you want to develop such an app is liability. Xavion had to raise their price for their app at some point to cover their newer expensive liability insurance policy. Nowadays, when someone dies in a crash, the family will sue everyone that touched the airplane from near or far in order to collect money. And this is true regardless of any displayed warning saying "use at your own risk"... family members don't click on that OK button nor do they care.

Yves

[dtoelke]

Thanks everyone for all the helpful comments.  I think the idea of comparing real performance to theoretical is a great idea/application that hasn't really been addressed.

 

Jim, your point about Xavion (a wonderful piece of software btw) is a valid one, but at $20/month there's a significant price hurdle.  I believe that most of us would check TO&L regularly if it were very convenient to do so, especially if it only cost something like $10 for a one time fee.  Right now there really isn't anything out there at the "so cheap i don't even think about it" price point, especially for the numerous Mooney models out there.  Whoever makes something like this (whether myself of someone else) certainly isn't going to get rich, but that's not really the point.

 

I'll keep y'all posted on the progress.  At some point I'll need POH scan donations

[HRM]

There is an iPhone app called IO360. It might suit your needs. 

 

Ditto. Great app and you cannot bet the price.

[HRM]

One risk you have to consider if you want to develop such an app is liability. Xavion had to raise their price for their app at some point to cover their newer expensive liability insurance policy. Nowadays, when someone dies in a crash, the family will sue everyone that touched the airplane from near or far in order to collect money. And this is true regardless of any displayed warning saying "use at your own risk"... family members don't click on that OK button nor do they care.

Yves

 

So, so true. The <legal> fact is that you can click away your own rights, but not those of your family <to sue>.

 

I'd like to see a Mooney unique EFB. Put your year and model in and it does all the work with a little bit of customization as to panel and such.

 

...but then there's the lawsuit thingee again 

[Hank]

I ran a spreadsheet when I first bought the plane, with various loading possibilities. Each one went in 10-gal increments of fuel, for departure and return.

Being based on a 3000' field for several years taught me that that's plenty of runway, but I use flaps there when departing heavy. If light (2 people and half tanks), then the nearby 2000' grass strip is plenty. That was good year round, but climbs in deep WV winter were completely different than in summer, but the trees at the end were never a threat, except for dragging the gear through them on short final as they continue to grow.

[Hank]

So, so true. The <legal> fact is that you can click away your own rights, but not those of your family <to sue>.

 

I'd like to see a Mooney unique EFB. Put your year and model in and it does all the work with a little bit of customization as to panel and such.

 

...but then there's the lawsuit thingee again 

In WV, anyone with the $35 filing fee can sue anyone, at any time, for anything. Rational, logical, comical or ideological; good case, bad case or no case. Pay the fee and file the suit, many just hope for a settlement. Just like the daytime TV lawyer commercials say, "come see us for a free evaluation. You don't pay anything until your case is settled."