Michigan to Connecticut around Lake Erie: North or South?

[Robert C.]

In 2 weeks time I'll be attending the PPP in Chattanooga and then on the way back to CT I'm detouring a bit and visiting my former college room mate who lives near Holland, MI. (KBIV)

 

So I'm doing some preliminary flight planning and looking at return routes KBIV - KDXR. Pretty much identical distances whether I go North of Lake Erie via Buffalo or take the Southern route and swing around Detroit.

 

Anyone have experience with those (approximate) routes and have advice? Easier/harder to deal with Detroit or Buffalo Class C/B airspace? Easier/harder to get sensible routings? Have a gut feeling that the Southern route gets me more in the way of the Heavy Iron heading into NY airspace and that it may be easier to get a reasonably direct routing and preferred altitudes via Buffalo but then again, that may just be naive thinking on my part.

 

Am also thinking that most of the time I'd get slightly more favorable winds on the Southern route, but that can vary from day-day of course.

 

Look forward to hearing your thoughts.

 

Robert

[aviatoreb]

I usually fly right over the lakes direct - and I go high enough that I am in gliding distance to shore at all times.  This saves a lot of time - plus the air traffic is much lower.  I think in an Ovation you can still get high enough to keep land in gliding distance at all times.  It is fun talking to the Canadian air traffic controllers. 

[Cruiser]

I'd go direct, you will have no problem with that on the western part of the trip. I don't what you will get near home, but you should have a good idea of that. Above 9000' you will be with center controllers almost all the time. 

[Danb]

Either..makes no difference, I am of the belief that the Cleveland controllers are some of the best I've encountered, I've had numerous trips from De to Detroit (Windsor Ca). And with the icing and changing conditions around the lakes in over 30 yrs of flying they have been consistently the most prompt and helpful and responsive controllers I've ever worked with...sometimes they deserve some kudos, generally they just get bitched about...

[Ned Gravel]

I don't have any advice on route, because I do not know what an Ovation can do, but I can tell you that Buffalo is far less crowded than Detroit.  

 

My experience differs from Tom's in that 9000' has not always been high enough for me to talk to only Centre controllers.  About 30% or more of the time, if I am in a terminal (approach or departure) zone, they will switch me to whatever facility is controlling that - even when IFR.  But different sectors do it differently, I guess.

 

One vote of Kudos as well for the Cleveland Centre folks.  You will find them and Toronto to both be very accommodating.  Not so much for Selfridge approach though.  They are a bit of a tougher crowd and you will get passed to them from Cleveland Centre as you approach US border north of Detroit.

 

Good luck - Good flight.

[aviatoreb]

I cross the great lakes generally at 17000 to 19000 - I have heard the Ovation can get up there even if not as quickly and it seems it would be worth the trouble as you would then route direct, and be in gliding distance to land at all times.

[Marauder]

Either..makes no difference, I am of the belief that the Cleveland controllers are some of the best I've encountered, I've had numerous trips from De to Detroit (Windsor Ca). And with the icing and changing conditions around the lakes in over 30 yrs of flying they have been consistently the most prompt and helpful and responsive controllers I've ever worked with...sometimes they deserve some kudos, generally they just get bitched about...

The Cleveland bunch is a good group. I think they understand the significance of lake effect weather and will do their best to accommodate changes to keep you out of harm's way.

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[Robert C.]

Thanks everyone. Very helpful.

Sounds like direct is the way to go. Recently got cannulas (and oximeter) and tried them on a recent flight so will file for 15,000 or 17,000 and see what happens.

Any of you going to the Chattanooga PPP as well?

Robert

[Jim Peace]

Would there be any bills from NAV Canada for the airspace useage?

[jnisley]

I've flown the north route several times and never got billed.

[Cruiser]

on that route you most likely will never talk to a Canadian controller. Cleveland Center covers from just west of Lansing to east of Rochester.

 

here's the map

[csarles]

I have flown from mid michigan to Connecticut a few times and always went basically direct. In Michigan to get with center you need to be 10k or higher generally. Never any costs associated with Toronto center. I generally fly it at 18-23k.

[carusoam]

Heavy iron and NY airspace out that far?

Flying around the lake?

Robert, were you thinking of going VFR?

These things are not that high on my critical list while at altitude (gliding distance to shore) and IFR.

It is definitely a good idea to get some practical experience with the O2 before committing to the high altitude flight...

Best regards,

-a-

[Robert C.]

Anthony,

Definitely filing IFR and based on the earlier feedback will file direct. The comments prompted me to measure the distances a little more precisely and check the POH for gliding distances and all looks cool.

My question was prompted to some extent by my experiences coming into the tri-state area from the West and the SW which would be the case if going the southerly route. Every time I've come or gone in those general directions (e.g. to/from Elmira or Northern PA) I have been re routed in an out-of-the-way manner. When I once asked the controller why my clearance was for a more southerly route than I had filed and why he couldn't give me a direct I was told that the more direct routing interfered with the traffic into Newark.

Going direct will keep me North of the Elmira/Binghamton/IGN line and I'm hoping will make a direct or favorable airways route more likely.

Robert

[Super Dave]

Since it would only add 8NM to go around the lake to the north, I would just file BUF. That way, if you want to stay low for WX/traffic/bumps or whatever, you won't have worry about a wet footprint. I'm not against going high to cross the lakes when it's warranted, but when staying over land adds less than three minutes to your trip, I don't see the point.

[Danb]

Super Dave I agree I carry flotation devices just to cross from Erie to Detroit..I've since started to file just west of Cleveland and then Detroit ..on the Lleeo arrival..this keeps me close to land and only adds 4-5 min. Plus one can cross at a much lower altitude for safety..

[Danb]

The cool thing on that flight is once you cross into Canada the amount of wind mills and new solar farms present especially in the wine country..