Glide slope not coming in

[PTK]

That is very interesting. What is it based on? I thought the data has an expiration date: "Valid till x". The box does talk to atomic clocks, so it knows the current date and time.

Yes and this doesn't preclude the use of expired databases.

In the start-up screens it shows current database info to the pilot. Such as valid dates, cycle number and database type. Pilot has to press continue button to continue if he wishes.

Expired databases are clearly shown in an amber color.

[Will W]

The Garmin box looks for a frequency. When you put in an ILS, you're putting in just a frequency. The GS has nothing to do with a database. At that point, you tune in the localizer, it looks for a paired frequency for the glideslope. For the table, look in the FAR/AIM in TBL 1-1-4 in the AIM. Yes, this is an FAA publication but these frequencies don't change. Anyways, if it doesn't see it, it won't show the glideslope and will flag. Simple as that.

Again, all you should do is add flaps to lower the nose so that your antenna can get the g/s signal. If you look at where these antennas are located at all airports, localizers are at the opposite side end of the runway. The glide slope antenna is on the approach end of the runway.

So if you understand this, it will make sense why the localizer will come in but the glideslope signal will still be blocked by the wing.

Again, this is common in low wing airplanes and something an instructor who has only flown a Cessna won't know about or have experience with.

[Houman]

Trying to understand why my HSI is not showing Glide slope and wondering if it something I'm doing wrong, can someone tell me what this slaving to do my HSI, I know the HSI compas rose is slaved, but is it controlled here where it is getting the info ???

I'm trying to get my avioncs guy test the GTN and see if it talking properly to HSI, I'm getting vloc on HSI from GTN...

See picture for slaving option.

Thanks !!!

[Marauder]

Trying to understand why my HSI is not showing Glide slope and wondering if it something I'm doing wrong, can someone tell me what this slaving to do my HSI, I know the HSI compas rose is slaved, but is it controlled here where it is getting the info ???

I'm trying to get my avioncs guy test the GTN and see if it talking properly to HSI, I'm getting vloc on HSI from GTN...

See picture for slaving option.

Thanks !!!

The slaving stuff shouldn't affect your glideslope signal. I am not too familiar with the mechanical HSI and someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I think the SL1 and SL2 are two separate flux devices located in your wings to sense magnetic fields. In most applications I have seen, there is only one slave and the free mode.

Have you tried to fly an LPV and see if the glideslope worked for it? That would tell you if it is the glideslope indicator in the HSI. If it does work, then it narrows it down to the glideslope signal on the ILS or in your equipment.

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[carusoam]

That looks somewhat like a source switch...?

The HSI can be fed by different radios.

My source switch defines Nav1 vs GPS.

My NAV1 has the glide slope nonWAAS GPS does not.

My HSI has a switch for slave vs, non slave, which is a compass in the wing that automatically adjust the HSI to point to mag North... The slaving device also has panel mounted +/- adjustments...

Do you have two compasses for slaving?

Best regards,

-a-

[Houman]

I only have 1 compass on the metalic bar on top of the glareshield, if there is a 2nd one, then it is not mounted on the console.

I first tought this switch might have to do something with my nav equipement, nav1 being the GTN and 2 being a radio...

Reading the HSI pilot guide, I now understand that the slaving is only for the compass rose card in the hsi and should have notting to do with the GS indicaror...

[yvesg]

Houman, try this RNAV approach in Mirabel in GPS mode. (will show LPV) If the glide slope needle is active it means there is something wrong with either the glide slope antenna (or weak reception) or the receiving part of the unit as mentionned by others. If it does not move then the wiring to the HSI or the HSI itself is defective.

Yves

[Houman]

Thanks Yves, I will have to try, I'm at the start of my IFR training and the CFI's that I have are not used to my airplane, GTN or the HSI I have in the aircraft, it seems they are mostly knowledgeable about the procedures on the school C172 or Multi's

 

So I feel like a beginner trying to not only understand IFR approaches, but also diagnose a potential problem that might be with my setup, or the way I'm using the stuff or both.

 

Thanks !

[mike_elliott]

Thanks Yves, I will have to try, I'm at the start of my IFR training and the CFI's that I have are not used to my airplane, GTN or the HSI I have in the aircraft, it seems they are mostly knowledgeable about the procedures on the school C172 or Multi's

 

So I feel like a beginner trying to not only understand IFR approaches, but also diagnose a potential problem that might be with my setup, or the way I'm using the stuff or both.

 

Thanks !

If you can get time with a Mooney Saavy CFII that has experience with your Garmin and A/P, you will be miles ahead. You can begin with the airwork stuff instead of spending avgas and $CDN to figure out systems. Systems training is huge in IFR work so it would be to your advantage to seek out a knowledgeable mentor.  

[Guest]

I only have 1 compass on the metalic bar on top of the glareshield, if there is a 2nd one, then it is not mounted on the console.

I first tought this switch might have to do something with my nav equipement, nav1 being the GTN and 2 being a radio...

Reading the HSI pilot guide, I now understand that the slaving is only for the compass rose card in the hsi and should have notting to do with the GS indicaror...

Sounds like it may be time to visit an avionics shop who can go through the installed equipment to test and verify all operations. The hire an instructor who is familiar with the aircraft performance and the avionics.

Clarence

[Houman]

Yep, doing part of that tomorrow before leaving for the Mooney Caravan, once I get back, I will have them update the GTN and test it. The problem has always been the CFI's that I have got are very good with flying C172 or Beech, but no experience on the Mooney. I had found 1 Mooney savvy instructor, but his prices were way high and since he was coming from a good distance with his Mooney, he was going to charge me his travel costs, kind of normal but too much... maybe I should take him on his offer for an hour or 2 and see... Hoping some in Caravan or MAPA in June can give me more information and fly a bit with people that know these birds...

[Houman]

Today before flying to Martinsburg for the Caravan, I updated the nav, terrain and safetaxy on the GTN, now when turing it on, in the test mode, the Glide Slope flag is removed and glide slope indicator moves. It was not doing that before, so I guess it is a good thing.

I will have to try it with my instructor.

[Guest]

For those of you with the GTN series, is it normal that an out of date data base would cause the G/S to flag? I don't think I've seen this on my 430W or is it something Garmin has added?

Clarence

[Marauder]

For those of you with the GTN series, is it normal that an out of date data base would cause the G/S to flag? I don't think I've seen this on my 430W or is it something Garmin has added?

Clarence

It doesn't sound right since the ILS overlay is not legal to fly. My plane should be coming out of annual this week. Since I always fly VFR on my first flight after annuals and I have the expired April 30th database in the GTN, I will give it a try on a local ILS.

[cujet]

My first guess would be a faulty radio. 

 

I've never seen a situation where the database or other software/firmware results in loss of approach information. 

[drapo]

Yep, doing part of that tomorrow before leaving for the Mooney Caravan, once I get back, I will have them update the GTN and test it.

The problem has always been the CFI's that I have got are very good with flying C172 or Beech, but no experience on the Mooney. I had found 1 Mooney savvy instructor, but his prices were way high and since he was coming from a good distance with his Mooney, he was going to charge me his travel costs, kind of normal but too much... maybe I should take him on his offer for an hour or 2 and see... Hoping some in Caravan or MAPA in June can give me more information and fly a bit with people that know these birds...

Houman, one of our fellow Mooney pilot in Lachute used Raphael Lagumier, airline pilot for Nolinor, test pilot for SAM amongst other things and based in Lachute, to complete his IR and he was very satisfied. Here is his site for contact: http://www.arlaviation.com

BTW, I was the Terminal controller in Montreal when you came back from KMRB, just didn't recognize your ident, sorry!

[Houman]

Thanks Drapo, always nice to talk to a fellow Mooney owner in Montreal and around. I was just coming back from the Mooney Caravan in Martinsburg.

We should try and have a mooney gathering somewhere around here in the near future.

Thanks for the contact info, i will try to get in touch with him.

[flyboy0681]

Hmm that's strange because I just talked to my IA about this topic today and he says that his gtn stack locks out the glide slope if nav data is out of date. He has a 750/650 stack with a g500. I don't know maybe I misunderstood him. I personally don't have gtn I'm still rockin my 430waas.

Best of luck though

 

When I was doing my IFR training there were plenty of times when I came to the airport only to see that the 750's database had expired. The GS worked just fine with expired data. 

[Houman]

Well, went and did 1.5h of simulated IFR approches on the Rocket, ILS glide Scope worked as published, glad it was only the GTN not being up to date that was causing that, or at least I guess. Since before the GTN update, ILS flag would not move at all during GTN test after power on..

Thanks for all the advise here !!!

[Marauder]

Well, went and did 1.5h of simulated IFR approches on the Rocket, ILS glide Scope worked as published, glad it was only the GTN not being up to date that was causing that, or at least I guess. Since before the GTN update, ILS flag would not move at all during GTN test after power on..

Thanks for all the advise here !!!

I will be picking up my plane either tomorrow night or Saturday morning and will confirm your findings with my expired database.

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[Houman]

Well my NAV was up to date, but not the rest... Really strange, I will call Garmin and ask tomorrow..

[FlyDave]

If and ILS GS doesn't work because the database is out of date then I think that is a bug in the software.

Database currency has nothing to do with ILS functionality. This seems quite strange to me. I look forward to Chris' results.

[Houman]

Well called garmin tech support yesterday and they said the same thing.

One very unlikley but possible reason the guy at tech support told me is that the GTN has com board, a nav board etc.... and maybe there was a glitch with the nav software and by updating, it removed the glitch, any way, the full software on my GTN is scheduled to be upgraded from 5.0 to 5.13, so will see if the problem has gone completely or not !

[Marauder]

Well called garmin tech support yesterday and they said the same thing.

One very unlikley but possible reason the guy at tech support told me is that the GTN has com board, a nav board etc.... and maybe there was a glitch with the nav software and by updating, it removed the glitch, any way, the full software on my GTN is scheduled to be upgraded from 5.0 to 5.13, so will see if the problem has gone completely or not !

Well, the test result is in... BTW -- I have 5.0 on mine.

Proof that my database is (was) expired:

Proof that the glide slope does function with an expired database:

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[FlyDave]

Chris,

 

On the Aspen, does you GS & LOC show on the AI? I see green diamonds that look like GS and LOC on the AI and a like that looks like a CDI on the HSI but no GS on the HSI. Is this correct?

 

Dave