IFR with GPS flying

[midlifeflyer]

And you don't need to activate the approach, once you hit PECIT, the approach will become active. At least on Garmin boxes.

Yep. That's the "And you wouldn't really have to do even that." part

[ArtVandelay]

Yep. That's the "And you wouldn't really have to do even that." part

And correct me if I'm wrong, but you have 2 options

1. Direct which is self explanatory

2. Activate leg, which if you wanted to intercept the inbound course.

[midlifeflyer]

Another I can think of off-hand is dealing with the recommendation to enter an approach to your departure airport when the weather is IFR in case there is a problem shortly after departure (or to a nearby airport if that makes more sense). 

 

Since you can only enter approaches for the destination, add your home airport (or nearby one) after your real destination and load the approach. Easy enough to delete it at your leisure once en route.

[midlifeflyer]

And correct me if I'm wrong, but you have 2 options

1. Direct which is self explanatory

2. Activate leg, which if you wanted to intercept the inbound course.

 

If the approach is loaded and you hit PECIT, as you said, the FAC will become active. The box is smart enough for that.  Or, you can activate vectors to final and get the extended FAC or as you said, activate leg.

 

I'm not sure about going direct since that is going to bring you direct to whatever fix you chose for the direct navigation. It's going to depend on where you are when you hit direct.

 

I like to keep this simple and consistent at this stage so, my SOP is going to be to hit FPL → Activate VTF if it is in fact a finale vector to the FAC unless the box beats me to it. 

[ArtVandelay]

If the approach is loaded and you hit PECIT, as you said, the FAC will become active. The box is smart enough for that. Or, you can activate vectors to final and get the extended FAC or as you said, activate leg.

I'm not sure about going direct since that is going to bring you direct to whatever fix you chose for the direct navigation. It's going to depend on where you are when you hit direct.

I like to keep this simple and consistent at this stage so, my SOP is going to be to hit FPL → Activate VTF if it is in fact a finale vector to the FAC unless the box beats me to it.

IIRC, direct to a fix, once you cross the fix, the GPS will start sequencing, if ATC said till established and has you on a vector to intercept the inbound course , then activating the leg you will be intercepting will cause it to do exactly just that.

I never use VTF, the GPS is smart enough to ignore the extraneous waypts

[Bob - S50]

Good tips.

 

This one is generic to most if not all IFR GPS boxes. In fact the AIM now advises to never use vectors to final, but rather load an appropriate IAF, for this very reason. Consider the effect of coming into Raleigh NC  from the west, hearing  "expect vectors to the final approach course" and entering vectors to final instead of selecting the PECIT IAF for the Runway 5L ILS:

http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1502/00516IL5R.PDF

 

You are now 25 NM west of RDU when the controller comes back to tell you, "Fly direct PECIT; cleared for the ILS 5L approach." 

 

Oops. Now you have to go back and re-load the approach. And that's after you stared blankly at the screen trying to figure out what the hec the controller was talking about. OTOH, if you selected PECIT to begin with and it was a vector to intercept, the absolute most you would have to do would be to tap the unit twice. And you wouldn't really have to do even that.

 

I've seen it happen a number of times, once in this exact scenario, and at other airports as well.

 

I agree.  Pick the transition that most closely aligns with the vectors and load it.  If cleared direct to a fix do it.  If told to intercept the approach (as opposed to cleared direct), go to the flight plan and activate the leg you will hit first.

 

Bob

[jnisley]

I almost always file direct and most times and get it unless my route takes me through class bravo airspace or when flying in the DC vicinity.

For example, I fly quite a bit just west of the DC airspace and here's what I can expect:

For KGKJ-KCHO I always file KGKJ-LURAY-KCHO because that's what was given me years ago when I tried to file direct and it has never failed me since.

For KGKJ-KHWY I always file KGKJ-CSN-KHWY on the way down and KHWY-CSN-MRB-HGR-KGKJ on the way back for the same reason.

[Marauder]

MooneyBob -- a couple more items on the GTN;

The GTN can be set to do an automatic conversion from GPS mode to VLOC for an ILS approach. This is particularly nice when you use the GPS function to fly a procedure turn. When you are inbound on the final approach course, the unit will automatically switch over.

Under the utilities icon you will find the VNAV function. I find it incredibly helpful to plan my descents or to ask for ATC for lower.

[midlifeflyer]

IIRC, direct to a fix, once you cross the fix, the GPS will start sequencing, if ATC said till established and has you on a vector to intercept the inbound course , then activating the leg you will be intercepting will cause it to do exactly just that.

I never use VTF, the GPS is smart enough to ignore the extraneous waypts

The reason I make the switch (unless it has already taken place) is, as I said, in part for consistency.

 

If, for example, I am shooting an ILS in an airplane (I fly multiple mane/models) in which the GPS doesn't automatically change the nav source, shortly before the intercept to the FAC (or its extension)  is my final manual changeover. In the days before GPS, it was also the point of the final check to see that the VOR OBS was set up correctly. So, my SOP is to do something at that stage on a consistent basis.

 

Although I am far from perfect myself, I'm a great believer in the power of consistent SOPs to help form habits, and that habits are our primary protection against errors. 

 

So yes, while you are correct that once the approach is loaded, intercepting the FAC will result in the GPS sequencing to that leg, I choose to consistently cross check that the correct entry is there, whatever approach I may be flying.

[PTK]

MooneyBob -- a couple more items on the GTN;

The GTN can be set to do an automatic conversion from GPS mode to VLOC for an ILS approach. This is particularly nice when you use the GPS function to fly a procedure turn. When you are inbound on the final approach course, the unit will automatically switch over.

Under the utilities icon you will find the VNAV function. I find it incredibly helpful to plan my descents or to ask for ATC for lower.

It is already configured by default out of the box to switch automatically from GPS to VLOC. However, this is ap dependent. It will do so with the KAP/KFC150.

It will not do it automatically with the KAP140 or KFC225 off the top of my head. For these it has to be configured to prompt you to switch. You have to switch to VLOC manually once prompted.

[flyboy0681]

Another I can think of off-hand is dealing with the recommendation to enter an approach to your departure airport when the weather is IFR in case there is a problem shortly after departure (or to a nearby airport if that makes more sense). 

 

Since you can only enter approaches for the destination, add your home airport (or nearby one) after your real destination and load the approach. Easy enough to delete it at your leisure once en route.

 

The same goes for your alternate. Plug it in after the the actual destination and in the event you go missed or need to get to your alternate, all you would need to do is activate it instead of fumbling around punching it in during a time of high stress.

[Bob - S50]

The same goes for your alternate. Plug it in after the the actual destination and in the event you go missed or need to get to your alternate, all you would need to do is activate it instead of fumbling around punching it in during a time of high stress.

 

Beat me to it, but I have something to add.  If you want to add the alternate airport, do it after you load the approach to your destination.  If you don't, when you load the approach, the alternate will be deleted from your flight plan.  My current thinking is to:

 

*  If I go missed approach and my decision would be to try the approach again, add nothing.

*  If I go missed approach and my decision would be to divert to an alternate:

 

1.  Load the approach at my destination

2.  Scroll to the end of the flight plan past the missed approach to the very end

3.  Add the transition fix for the approach I would want at my alternate

4.  Add my alternate airport.

 

That way if I go missed approach and decide to divert, I can go direct to the transition fix, then use the airport to add the approach.

 

Bob

[Marauder]

Beat me to it, but I have something to add.  If you want to add the alternate airport, do it after you load the approach to your destination.  If you don't, when you load the approach, the alternate will be deleted from your flight plan.  My current thinking is to:

 

*  If I go missed approach and my decision would be to try the approach again, add nothing.

*  If I go missed approach and my decision would be to divert to an alternate:

 

1.  Load the approach at my destination

2.  Scroll to the end of the flight plan past the missed approach to the very end

3.  Add the transition fix for the approach I would want at my alternate

4.  Add my alternate airport.

 

That way if I go missed approach and decide to divert, I can go direct to the transition fix, then use the airport to add the approach.

 

Bob

 

Wasn't this one of the features on the new Avidyne unit? You can load multiple airports and approaches to that airport. Seem to remember something about the multiple approaches feature.

[flyboy0681]

Good tips.

 

This one is generic to most if not all IFR GPS boxes. In fact the AIM now advises to never use vectors to final, but rather load an appropriate IAF, for this very reason. Consider the effect of coming into Raleigh NC  from the west, hearing  "expect vectors to the final approach course" and entering vectors to final instead of selecting the PECIT IAF for the Runway 5L ILS:

http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1502/00516IL5R.PDF

 

You are now 25 NM west of RDU when the controller comes back to tell you, "Fly direct PECIT; cleared for the ILS 5L approach." 

 

Oops. Now you have to go back and re-load the approach. And that's after you stared blankly at the screen trying to figure out what the hec the controller was talking about. OTOH, if you selected PECIT to begin with and it was a vector to intercept, the absolute most you would have to do would be to tap the unit twice. And you wouldn't really have to do even that.

 

I've seen it happen a number of times, once in this exact scenario, and at other airports as well.

 

This was a new one on me. I tried it using the simulator and it worked like a charm. Thanks for the (useful) tip.

[wishboneash]

<<3.  If you load an approach, do not expect to see it show up before the airport.  The flight plan and the map will both show you flying to your destination airport, then out to the starting point of the approach (or transition), then back to the airport, then out to the missed approach.  Do not worry.  Once you activate the approach everything prior to that will be ignored.>>

 

I usually go back and delete the airport (destination) after loading the approach so it is not in the flight plan twice.

Thanks for the informative posting.

[midlifeflyer]

 

 

I usually go back and delete the airport (destination) after loading the approach so it is not in the flight plan twice.

Thanks for the informative posting.

 

Yes, that's completely unnecessary. The system knows the approach you loaded is for that airport.

 

Yes, until you activate the approach, the GPS is still going direct to wherever it was going direct to previously. So if your current leg is Direct to the airport, it still is.

 

Once you start receiving vectors as you near the airport, you will usually want to stay in "Load" mode and not "Activate" anything. For one thing, you haven't been cleared for the approach and you may still be pretty far from the airport or the approach environment. Activate VTF and you have the problem we discussed earlier if ATC practically later instructs you to go direct to a waypoint on the approach. You don;t want to load the approach, since that will give yo a nice magenta line to whatever you chose as your IAF, which may have little to do with the approach clearance ultimately given. If you remove the destination at that point, you've effectively told the system to go to the waypoint after the destination, the same as if you activated the approach. 

 

So why not leave that nice magenta course line to the destination alone? At worst, it's nice situational awareness  to see how far off the  course you are being vectored. At best, if it turns out that the vectors were for traffic or airspace, and ATC tells you in a while to "proceed direct" to the destination again or re-intercept the old airway, it's only 2 (direct) - 3 (intercept) taps away, not having to pull up your flight plan re-enter the destination you just deleted and then use those 2-4 taps.

[wishboneash]

OK. Good point. I will try this out some time and see how this works. Thanks.

[midlifeflyer]

OK. Good point. I will try this out some time and see how this works. Thanks.

BTW, what are you using that you are getting the destination in the flight plan twice? That part suddenly dawned on me that it didn't sound right, so I re-checked with the simulator. In both the GNS400/500 series and the GTN 600/700 series, the destination is only listed once when both loading and activating the approach.

 

Are you referring to the destination and the MAP as being duplicates of each other? If you are, they are not really. Another reason to not delete the destination is in case you need a different approach, either because the winds and weather changed* after you loaded the approach or because you went missed and decided to try a different approach to the same airport.

 

Having to re-enter the destination - since now there is none - in addition to all the other tasks you need to do to load and brief a new approach seems to be an unnecessarily high workload. But, of course, I don't really understand the benefit of deleting it,

 

============================== 

* Not with GPS - it was long before then - but on my instrument checkride, my last approach was going to be into a Class C airport. After listening to the ATIS and briefing the approach, ATC (not my Examiner although I was tempted to accuse him of setting it up) put me into a hold as they switched runways due to a change in the winds. 

[wishboneash]

OK. Maybe I have been doing this all wrong and there is a better way to load an approach!

So, let's say I want to fly from KLVK to KHAF and for simplicity sake I file direct. I enter KLVK and KHAF into the flight plan. Then "Load" the RNAV 30 Z approach" with SAPID as my transition. So, now I get KLVK - KHAF - SAPID (iaf) - JUMDA - WOHLI - RW30 (map) - 466ft - LAYKI - SEEMS (mahp). So now if take off from KLVK and I am flying along, the guidance will take me direct to the KHAF then back to SAPID would it not? If I activate the SAPID leg on my way from KLVK to KHAF, it will put the the magenta line from KHAF to SAPID and not KLVK to SAPID. How do I go to SAPID without deleting KHAF? I agree, the unfortunate thing with this method is that KHAF is not in the flight plan any more and if I have to fly another approach, I have to re-do the flight plan by deleting the approach and then entering destination again and then loading another approach. If I can keep KHAF in the flight plan without actually using it, that would be perfect. I remember the same issue with the 430. So, what do others do?

[wishboneash]

I realise my mistake now and answered my own question. If I "activated" the approach at some point on the flight it takes me to SAPID. I can now leave KHAF in my flight plan. I usually activate the leg which is not the same thing as activating the approach. I learn something here every day! Thanks.

[midlifeflyer]

I realise my mistake now and answered my own question. If I "activated" the approach at some point on the flight it takes me to SAPID. I can now leave KHAF in my flight plan. I usually activate the leg which is not the same thing as activating the approach. I learn something here every day! Thanks.

And, of course, if at any point along the way, ATC instructs "Proceed Direct SAPID" (or "Direct JUMDA" or  WOHLI), you just tap it in the flight plan and it draws the magenta line to there. The general procedure is you don't activate the approach until you are cleared for it. That keep all your options open.

 

I think all you've really been doing is making it seem more difficult than it actually is.

[wishboneash]

Yes. I have picked up some bad habits along the way. So far it hasn't caused me trouble, but certainly not optimal.

[midlifeflyer]

Believe me, you are not the only one! You should have seen my tailwheel endorsement training! That's why getting instruction from time to time is so good.