Made in China Acclaim

[Tommy]

http://www.ecns.cn/business/2014/12-30/148662.shtml

 

Can anyone see the silver lining of this?

 

 

[BorealOne]

Orders placed for 17 more Acclaims? How could that be a bad thing?

[Steve Dawson]

Would they be certified in the US? This isn't going to be good for Kerrville although it's probably the only way that they could of survived and they are called Mooney International now.

[Yetti]

So for the Mooney's made in China, will they use the same China made tools shipped to Harbor Freight?

[cbarry]

The Type certificate of the aircraft was purchased not necessarily the traditional/Kerrville manufacturing process. Caveat Emptor!

[NotarPilot]

If I had to guess I would imagine the parts were manufactured in Kerrville and shipped to China for assembly. This is sometimes done when international military orders are placed for other nation's militaries. Example: Eurocopter (Now Airbus) assembling Lakota helicopters for the U.S. Army in Mississippi using parts manufactured in Europe. This makes work for the local population among other reasons governments do it.

So if this is the case that means people in Kerrville are still busy making Mooneys, just not doing final assembly. I imagine the article says the planes are made in China to put a spin of national pride on the story.

[Tommy]

I highly doubt that the parts will be made in Kerrville - after all, China now has the ability - not equating quality - to make them and it would be astronomically cheaper to do so.

 

I am predicting:

 

1) Significant down grading or even closing of Kerrville factory

2) Quality issues surfacing from these Made-In-China Mooneys 

3) Significant reduction in the re-sale value of existing Mooneys

4) Cheaper parts available

 

This is a typical Chinese business strategy. But it's between this or a ceased-to-be-opearting bankrupted business....

 

[aviatoreb]

I think its fantastic.  The more NEW Mooneys being built in the world, the more Mooneys there will be in the world.  More used Mooneys for me to buy.  More parts being built to keep my Mooney flying.  More pilots, yada yada.

 

If the worry suggested is that Kerryville would close to move production to China, I have been reading that there has been significant infrastructure investment in Texas since Mooney International took over.  That is not what one usually does as a preamble to close Texas and move to China.  It sounds like they may be developing an international supply chain concept- the halmark of modern successful companies that thrive in many locations.  Texas included.  Yay for Texas, yay for China and double Yay for Mooney.

 

Can't wait to see the M10 and ... the M30.

[Tommy]

Two major issues

 

1) the quality control of these Made-In-China Mooneys. Imagine one day that your friends may decline to fly with you because it's a Mooney.

2) Down-sizing of Kerrville Factory. In fact, I think the manufacturing operation will cease and be replaced by R&D, sale and marketing and +/- repair. 

[cbarry]

Most likely the manufacturing will continue for awhile in Kerrville--as long as the buyer still places some premium on the value of traditional quality. If not, then cheaper, under the guise of "new and improved" will win out and assembly only and some distribution will be the next possible phase of the Kerrville plant. By the way, I bet if you asked ten pilots what they were thinking when they heard the news in 2013 that Mooney was coming back, ten out ten would have admitted the esteemed quality, speed and efficiency crossed their minds. Let's hope that as the manufacturing process evolves, those traits stay constant!

[Cruiser]

CHINA

EMBASSY OF THE

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

October 8, 1991

Excellency:

I have the honor to refer to the discussions which have recently taken place

between representatives of our two Governments regarding an agreement concerning

the airworthiness certification, approval, or acceptance of imported civil aeronautical

products and cooperation on this matter between the Government of the United States

of America and the Government of the People's Republic of China, hereinafter referred

to as "the Contracting States." It is my understanding that the Agreement shall be as

follows:

His Excellency

 QIAN QICHEN,

Minister of Foreign Affairs of

The People's Republic of China.

[Releew]

The sad part of this entire situation is that a USA based company of any type did not have the business desire to acquire Mooney.  Does anyone know why this appeared to look like such a bad investment?????  Heck....with the number of people on this site we could have pooled resources and purchase Mooney!

 

Don't kid yourself.....  This company was purchased to acquire the technology, tooling and talent. Once it's absorbed, count on local manufacturing going away.  I have made several trips to China over the last 30 years and can attest to their ability to duplicate anything.  They are Excellent at finding manufacturing shortcuts and less expensive materials.  In the airplane world this is not acceptable! 

 

Sorry.... to be blunt, but I do not see a silver lining in this long term.

 

Rick   

[Tommy]

I totally agree with you, Rick. 

 

The best that Kerrville can walk away from this deal will be a permanent R&D facility - even that is unreasonably optimistic. 

 

The sad fact is that, given the hostility of the current GA environment - high fuel price, expensive maintenance, global economic down turn, closure of regional airports, and bureaucracy - the only way Mooney can survive with its costly manufacturing process is to have it made in China using cheaper labour and cheaper parts. 

[scottfromiowa]

http://www.ecns.cn/business/2014/12-30/148662.shtml

 

Can anyone see the silver lining of this?

Yes. Mooney's are being manufactured. Mooney's are being sold.

[scottfromiowa]

Where is the ipad I am typing on manufactured?

[Tommy]

Your iPad is made in China whilst most of the R&D&Marketing of it is done in US. 

 

That's why I said the best that Kerrville can hope for, in the long run, is a permanent R&D&Marketing facility. 

 

But we are equally concerned about the quality of the future Mooneys and its reputation. 

[cliffy]

How much of the USA debt payments to China (who is buying our huge debt) is paying for all this growth in Chine-Mooney included?

[flyboy0681]

When the purchase by the Chinese was announced I predicted this here on MS. I also recall being pooh-poohed. I also said that all of the training that takes place here in the US will shift to China.

[RobertE]

I think its fantastic.  The more NEW Mooneys being built in the world, the more Mooneys there will be in the world.  More used Mooneys for me to buy.  More parts being built to keep my Mooney flying.  More pilots, yada yada.

 

If the worry suggested is that Kerryville would close to move production to China, I have been reading that there has been significant infrastructure investment in Texas since Mooney International took over.  That is not what one usually does as a preamble to close Texas and move to China.  It sounds like they may be developing an international supply chain concept- the halmark of modern successful companies that thrive in many locations.  Texas included.  Yay for Texas, yay for China and double Yay for Mooney.

 

Can't wait to see the M10 and ... the M30.

Well said.

[DaV8or]

Mooney was purchased for one reason and one reason only. To make airplanes in China for use in China. No US investors, or investors from anywhere in the world wanted to buy Mooney, because they don't want to have to partner with the Chinese government and deal with all their regulations. Without access to China, the only aviation market that is expanding, there is no point to buy an old washed up US aviation company.

 

Like others have said, the factory in China will make planes for China and Kerrville will make planes for the US and elsewhere... for now. Soon Kerrville will be assembling Chinese parts and then Chinese sub assemblies and eventually Kerrville will shut. Either that or Mooney will go bust one more time.

 

For now our parts supply is secure, but soon we will be irrelevant and a liability on the balance sheet. Once the new M10 comes on line and it is quickly followed by a replacement (assuming the M10 is a success) for the current M20, we will get as much factory support as the owner of a 1972 Toyota Corolla gets from Toyota today. It's not that big of a deal I guess, because there won't be that many of us flying anymore anyhow unless things change radically here in the US. That hasn't happened for decades so I'm not sure why it would now though.

[M016576]

China (in general) has been making aircraft for along time. I haven't read about too many mechanical failures or parts problems in their J-11B's or J-15's. Is there a history of poor quality control among Chinese aircraft in the last 10-15 years that I'm unaware of?

Chinese industry is moving forward at a rapid clip... In the near term this is good for mooney: we're leveraging their demand. But like I speculated in the M10J post: I think the new mooney will be a Chinese built M10/M30 market produced solely in China.

[DaV8or]

Where is the ipad I am typing on manufactured?

 

The difference is, your iPad is 100% designed by Apple in the USA as quality control is strictly controlled 100% by Apple in the USA. There is no Chinese management.

[DaV8or]

How much of the USA debt payments to China (who is buying our huge debt) is paying for all this growth in Chine-Mooney included?

 

Exactly. The Chinese have to buy up American assets. It's the only way to keep us afloat and not have all their US dollars become worthless. Until the Chinese Yuan becomes the new world standard currency, they will have to keep propping us up in spite of all our efforts to destroy ourselves with our own greed. So yes, Mooney International is 100% financed with our interest payments to the Chinese.

[flyboy0681]

How much of the USA debt payments to China (who is buying our huge debt) is paying for all this growth in Chine-Mooney included?

 

 

Just curious, what percentage of outstanding American debt do you believe the Chinese hold?

[Tommy]

Agreed with you, Dave. The existing Mooneys are simply too expensive to make comparing to a SR22 and therefore will remain unprofitable if it is to be priced competitively against Cirrus / Cessna / Piper / LSA unless it is manufactured in China with some cost saving (aka corner cuttings) measures.

 

The only way to make a profit - AND THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE NEED TO REALISE: THE CHINESE ARE IN THIS FOR PROFIT NOT FOR AVIATORS - is to roll out plastic planes like M10 - a miniature Cirrus with a forward canted tail - and have them made in China. 

 

I think in few years of time there won't be any more Made-in-US M20s and eventually even the Made-in-China M20s will be scrapped. 

 

Predatory business practice or brilliant technological innovation? You can be the judge...