Any Mooney versus a plastic airplane

[Jsavage3]

I do not speak for everyone, but based on this photo, for the life of me, I cannot see why anyone would ever choose plastic over a Mooney.
 
Even if just based on the lines...the Mooney is sexy!

 

In no way am I trying to make enemies.  So, you plastic drivers just keep your opinions to yourselves, if they happen to be sour.

 

Just sayin' I love my Mooney!!!

 

[jfdez]

Nice!

 

BTW, looks like the tail is hanging a little low.  Perhaps time for new gear biscuits?

[Jsavage3]

Or maybe he just had a box of gold bars in the back due to all the money he's saving on fuel?

[yvesg]

Or maybe he just had a box of gold bars in the back due to all the money he's saving on fuel?

If he is saving money, it is definitely not on fuel. This aircraft is from Canada. We still pay over $8 a gallon over here... The price per barrel is getting low but the CDN dollar is doing the same. So we get screwed whatever happens.

Yves

[Houman]

I'm a Mooniac, but I would still choose the jet in back if I had the choice between the 3... 2nd choice would be the Mooney...

[DAVIDWH]

You made a good choice.

 

Rumor has it the "Clorox Bottles" breakup and burn very quickly in emergency off field landing situations,

 

parachute not withstanding.

 

Steel and aluminum still work for me.

[Marauder]

Nice!

BTW, looks like the tail is hanging a little low. Perhaps time for new gear biscuits?

Nah! Like all Mooneys, they are always looking skyward. The Cirrus sitting level so the chute can deploy better.

[Guest]

There is something to be said for aluminum.

[DaV8or]

There is something to be said for aluminum.

 

It corrodes like a bitch? Maybe I've just read too many threads around here.

[GeorgePerry]

As someone who's flown both Cirrus and Mooney extensively, I can say that both are fine aircraft and have unique strengths and weaknesses. Looks aside, here is how I think the Mooney and Cirrus stack up, not against one another directly but as a critique of both aircraft individually.

"Goods" for Mooney.

(1) They are a heck of a lot of fun to fly and the sports car feel a Mooney has can not be found in any other 4 place aircraft including the TTX.

(2) The control feel is second to none There is probably no better flight control feel in a 4 seat "go-places" airplane than a Mooney.

(3) Efficiency and speed are right at the top of the list of what makes the Mooney so good as a traveling plane.

(4) Mooney's are incredibly well built and tend to be easily maintained if routine items are addressed regularly. Aluminum doesn't require any special skills and just about an A&P can fix a Mooney.

Mooney "Others"

(1) Mooney's are not easy to get in and out of, front or rear seats. As pilots age and "flexibility" isn't what it once was, the Mooney shuffle gets more challenging.

(2) The baggage door is small and way to high off the ground.

(3) Mooney's aren't well suited for any airfield that's not paved or perfectly manicured dry grass.

(5) If not flown precisely, any excess airspeed on final will cause a Mooney to float in ground effect forever.

(6) Useful load, in most Mooney's is less than 1000 lb. This make every Mooney a 2-3 place aircraft with fuel.

(7) Retractable gear is great 99.97% of the time. 0.03% of the time when the gear remains in the "flying" position when it should be in the "landing" position it makes owners sad.

(8) Aluminum doesn't hold fuel well. Fuel tanks in Mooney's are notorious for developing leaks.

(9) Mooney hasn't updated there basic design in many-many years. There's lots of room for improvement in several areas.

Cirrus - Generationally there are significant differences, but in general here are the "Goods".

(1) Lots of safety built in to the airframe. The cuffed spin-resistant wing is really nice and the parachute is a serious safety system and not a gimmick. The debate is over, CAPS has proven itself a lifesaving device.

(2) The cabin size is second to none, and the interior feels very roomy, (esp the back seats) its easy to get in and out of and there's nothing else in GA that comes close. It's BMW-like and really nice.

(3) Not one Cirrus has ever landed gear up.

(4) Even early generation Cirrus embraced full glass panels and capable autopilot systems that make flying from point a to b much easier and enjoyable. The G5 with G1000 Perspectives is amazing

(5) Useful load of Gen 5 Cirrus is legit! 1300+ lbs. You can put 4 full sized adults, bags and full fuel in it. No other 4 place can say this.

(6) Cirrus continually improves the aircraft and the differences between a new Cirrus and one that's just a few years old is significant.

Cirrus "Others"

(1) The artificial control feel of the Cirrus is objectionable to some pilots (I don't hate it, but don't love it either)

(2) In terms of outright efficiency, it's not as good as some other aircraft, but that's a function of the cross sectional cabin size. The trade off of speed/efficiency for room.

(3) Composite repairs are a specialty skill and tend to be expensive when needed.

(4) Cirrus certified repair facilities tend to work at the top of the price spectrum so maintaining a Cirrus can be expensive.

(5) The composite 3 blade prop (which is lighter than the aluminum prop and admittedly looks cool, but…) turns into a big speed brake with a reduction in power.  Once it stops making thrust and starts making drag, airspeed bleeds off at an alarming rate.  As such composite prop Cirrus' require "high-ish" power settings to get the plane into a comfortable flare.

Every airplane is a great airplane to someone…Too many folks feel the need to "bash" one kind of plane in favor of another. I say, to each his own. When it's time to buy a plane, we all get to decide what's right for us. Criticizing a fellow pilot for choosing one particular type over another is unproductive.

Now for aesthetics…In my humble opinion, Mooney's are the sexiest, most beautiful aircraft out there. (others milage will vary) When it comes time to spend hard earned money on a plane, emotions do come into play looks do matter. I own a Mooney because of its virtues and inspite of its faults. But again to each his own.

[bonal]

I love all airplanes for there esthetic qualities I know they all have good and bad traits. Here is one trait that no other can match a Mooney. There is no airplane that someone with a limited budget can afford that even comes close to a M20C or M20E. If I could afford a 500,000 airplane there might be some good options to a Mooney. But for around 40,000 I get a real 3 seat 140knot fun to fly tuff aircraft and if I'm just 2 I can push it to close to 150 knots.

[carusoam]

I like George's thought process and writing skills!

They translate well from anywhere on the globe.

We got a good look at the integration of wing Cuffs and FIKI(?) system on the same wing today at KOQN. There is an interesting keyboard on the instrument panel to enter data with.

There will be a handful of opportunities for a new O4.

Best regards,

-a-

[Piloto]

I personally prefer metal, specially in the vicinity of thunderstorms. For me the Mooney has the "macho" looks vs. the "mosquito" looks.

 

José

[Andy95W]

50 years old and cost me less than $40,000.

Those Cirrus dorks and their plastic airplanes can bite me.

[bonal]

Damn Straight

[fantom]

I like George's thought process and writing skills!

-a-

Me too, and so does George. He 'liked' his own post. Is that legal? I think George has a future in politics, comments about AOPA aside.

George, did you retire from the Navy? Given your last posting, I thought you would be in line for flag rank.

[Guest]

George,

I'm not sure that I can agree with this part of your statement:

(5) Useful load of Gen 5 Cirrus is legit! 1300+ lbs. You can put 4 full sized adults, bags and full fuel in it. No other 4 place can say this.

My 50 year old Piper Comanche will carry more weight further.

Clarence

[ryoder]

I can't wait to fly in the Cirrus hangared behind me. I like my Mooney but getting in and out is not fun and I am in great shape. I do like the retractable gear and consider it part of the cool factor of my airplane. The M20C is super inexpensive to purchase. I am looking forward to the day when an old Cirrus goes for 45k with a runout engine. I think non pilots would feel more comfortable in a Cirrus because it is more car like.

I love all airplanes and all things that fly. Airplane people are adventurous and optimistic. They engender the qualities of rugged individualism that is America and that seems to be lacking these days. So for that reason I don't bash anyone's choice of airplane.

[GeorgePerry]

Me too, and so does George. He 'liked' his own post. Is that legal? I think George has a future in politics, comments about AOPA aside.

George, did you retire from the Navy? Given your last posting, I thought you would be in line for flag rank.

 

Apologies for the self-like…I was working off an iPad and trying to hit edit.  Fat fingers and sleepy eyes will get you every time.

 

Yes I have "retired" from the Navy and enjoying life serving GA in my new capacity.

[GeorgePerry]

George,

I'm not sure that I can agree with this part of your statement:

(5) Useful load of Gen 5 Cirrus is legit! 1300+ lbs. You can put 4 full sized adults, bags and full fuel in it. No other 4 place can say this.

My 50 year old Piper Comanche will carry more weight further.

Clarence

I suppose I should have put in a qualifier…Every 4 place aircraft except for the Comanche 400.  I'm glad I don't have to put gas in that.

[fantom]

Fat fingers and sleepy eyes will get you every time.

 

 

Hey...I resemble those characteristics.

[adrian]

I love my M20E, which has taken me on some incredible adventures.

But.... I fly it because it's cheap and efficient, and fuel here costs $11/gallon. If I could afford it I'd have an SR22T with FIKI.

A Cirrus is easier to operate, easier to land, easier to get in and out of, more comfortable, safer (when operated correctly, which means using the parachute early), and more reassuring for passengers. And it has better handling. The "feel" of the Mooney may be nicer than the artificial feel in the Cirrus, but the Cirrus is a lot more agile and easier to control accurately in challenging conditions.

None of which is very surprising given that my Mooney is getting on for 50 years old, and wasn't a new design even then. It would be nice to see a new Mooney design that made the Cirrus look old.

[Andy95W]

I love my M20E, which has taken me on some incredible adventures.

But.... I fly it because it's cheap and efficient, and fuel here costs $11/gallon. If I could afford it I'd have an SR22T with FIKI.

A Cirrus is easier to operate, easier to land, easier to get in and out of, more comfortable, safer (when operated correctly, which means using the parachute early), and more reassuring for passengers.

But then you'd have to hang out with the other Cirrus owners, and who wants that?

[adrian]

I enjoy hanging out with pilots, whatever they fly. I haven't found one yet who doesn't know something that I don't!

[Mooneymite]

For me, a negative of the "Clorox Bottle" genre is that it has not yet passed the test of time.

 

There's no real world data on how well plastic-planes will absorb UV and repeated heating and cooling over the years.

 

While aluminum will definitely corrode, such is easy to spot; the degradation of structure in an aging plastic-plane may not be.  At best it is an unknown for now.

 

As long as they're new, there's no doubt they're great airplanes.