CARBON MONOXIDE MONITOR

[RocketAviator]

Looking for recommendations. 

The built in Carbon Monoxide Monitors seem to run in the $280 - over $1000 plus labor to install.

My question is, is it worth the extra expense or would a portable unit be adequate?

 

Any recommendations on either or both would be appreciated. 

 

Have a couple weeks until the annual & IFR certification, so need to decide on which way to go.

Thanks in advance,

 

[Glenn]

I had the Guardian panel mount installed a few years ago. The only time it has sounded, other than test mode, was during a prolonged run-up with the wind from the right -front.  It was easy to hear and I was glad to see that it works.

 

Given that two GA airplanes were lost this week to hypoxia, it seems like a reasonable investment to make in a very capable plane. http://www.guardianavionics.com/aero452-101-011.html

[ArtVandelay]

 

Given that two GA airplanes were lost this week to hypoxia, it seems like a reasonable investment to make in a very capable plane. http://www.guardianavionics.com/aero452-101-011.html

How does lack of O₂ relate to too much CO?

[BobAustin]

I use the Ultra Low Level CO2 detector sold by Aeromedix.com.  Cost 199 and is far more sensitive than others.

 

http://www.aeromedix.com/carbon_monoxide_detectors/

 

Bob

[DAVIDWH]

A finger worn pulse oximeter always accompanies me above 12,000 feet.

 

It doesn't say much, just blinks pulse rate and oxygen saturation levels. Cheap, and reliable. 

 

My co detector is cigarette lighter plug and play.

 

Best

[Txbyker]

I bought a Tocsin made by Otis from Pilot Mall for $150.  It will clip onto something in the cockpit.  It has a single use battery that lasts 2 years.  I know it works.  I ran the engine up after oil change to check for leaks with the cowling off and the door ajar and the digits started climbing on the unit very quickly.  

 

Russ 

[Andy95W]

How does lack of O₂ relate to too much CO?

Carbom monoxide (CO) will be absorbed by the blood's hemoglobin more readily than oxygen (O2). Therefore, even though there is plenty of O2 available, the blood can't carry it to the body because the hemoglobin is filled up with CO.

That's why the symptoms are so similar between Carbon Monoxide poisoning and hypoxia.

[Danb]

Dave I agree you should bring the oximeter along but I would consider it on flights even lower than 12000 ft. Since we are all different,prior to oxygen use I blamed my headaches on the headsets, after use the headaches seemed to disappear, the reason for lower use is at 7000 ft. My o2 level is below 94% while my wife does not need o2 until over 12000 ft. Hers at 12000 ft. Is 95%. Based on this I wonder where the FAA determined the level our use of oxygen is needed, in our plane if I fly at 11000 ft, my o2 is on at 7000 ft while my wife does not need it at all, who knows....

[Piloto]

In a well ventilated Mooney like the M20J and later models it is kind of remote that you will accumulate any substantial CO coming through the firewall or the floor while in flight. More likely through the cabin heat (muffler leak). I would just go with the Home Depot CO & fire alarm for $29.95  and ty-wrap it underneath the seat so it can senses any CO coming through the cabin heat floor vent. BTW you would get more CO from a gas lawn mower or taxing behind a jet than from your Mooney.

 

José

[Tom]

Carbom monoxide (CO) will be absorbed by the blood's hemoglobin more readily than oxygen (O2). Therefore, even though there is plenty of O2 available, the blood can't carry it to the body because the hemoglobin is filled up with CO.

That's why the symptoms are so similar between Carbon Monoxide poisoning and hypoxia.

 

While the initial symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning and hypoxia are similar, carbon monoxide poisoning can cause (if you believe the research) permanent brain damage (amongst other bad things) that can be insidious vs carbon dioxide accumulation that provides no similar damage concern and can be cured in seconds with increased breathing and/or supplemental oxygen.

 

In such a discussion it should be noted that pulse oximeters are not useful to evaluate for potential or presumed carbon monoxide poisoning.  Put simply, the pulse oximeter will typically provide a normal "oxygenation" value despite the presence of a critical amound of carbon monoxide poisoning (i.e. carboxyhemaglobin).

 

José's idea for the home depot design is reasonable though I use a portable.  Portable is nice because a) it's less expensive, it's usefull to test against the CO monitors that I have at home.  I'd strongly encourage everyone to have CO detectors in their homes (but that is another issue).

[ArtVandelay]

I went the home depot route as well, I keep it one of the pouches...it has a digital readout with peek/current values...it's highest value I think was 11.

[Marauder]

In a well ventilated Mooney like the M20J and later models it is kind of remote that you will accumulate any substantial CO coming through the firewall or the floor while in flight. More likely through the cabin heat (muffler leak). I would just go with the Home Depot CO & fire alarm for $29.95 and ty-wrap it underneath the seat so it can senses any CO coming through the cabin heat floor vent. BTW you would get more CO from a gas lawn mower or taxing behind a jet than from your Mooney.

José

While the initial symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning and hypoxia are similar, carbon monoxide poisoning can cause (if you believe the research) permanent brain damage (amongst other bad things) that can be insidious vs carbon dioxide accumulation that provides no similar damage concern and can be cured in seconds with increased breathing and/or supplemental oxygen.

In such a discussion it should be noted that pulse oximeters are not useful to evaluate for potential or presumed carbon monoxide poisoning. Put simply, the pulse oximeter will typically provide a normal "oxygenation" value despite the presence of a critical amound of carbon monoxide poisoning (i.e. carboxyhemaglobin).

José's idea for the home depot design is reasonable though I use a portable. Portable is nice because a) it's less expensive, it's usefull to test against the CO monitors that I have at home. I'd strongly encourage everyone to have CO detectors in their homes (but that is another issue).

I went the home depot route as well, I keep it one of the pouches...it has a digital readout with peek/current values...it's highest value I think was 11.

Wow! A trifecta! Three Cheap Bast&$ds in a row! Congratulations!

BTW -- well done on the CO detector from Home Depot. The technology behind the aviation and home usage detectors remain the same. Walmart also runs sales on them...

[fantom]

Wow! A trifecta! Three Cheap Bast&$ds in a row! Congratulations!

...

Very high praise from our CB President

[Wakeup]

I bought a CO2 detector from Sportys and it always looked a little dark after I installed it. It wasn't to reassuring to my finance so I took it out. I would prefer a digital readout so I know it's accurate and not me just heavy breathing. Troy

[chrisk]

There is an older article on AVweb for those contemplating a Home Depot CO detector.  http://www.avweb.com/news/aeromed/186016-1.html?redirected=1  Also, keep in mind that the sensor on the electronic units does not last forever.  For those dropping $500+ on a certified CO meter, be prepared to spend that every 5 or 6 years.

[Marauder]

There is an older article on AVweb for those contemplating a Home Depot CO detector. http://www.avweb.com/news/aeromed/186016-1.html?redirected=1 Also, keep in mind that the sensor on the electronic units does not last forever. For those dropping $500+ on a certified CO meter, be prepared to spend that every 5 or 6 years.

You Sir have just been promoted to "Director of R&D for the Cheap Bast$&d's Club". Thanks for sharing!

[22 others]

Is the Home depot version sensitive enough to be useful in an airplane?  The Mike Busch article says you need a 30ppm alarm.

 

This Kiddie from Amazon says the alarm doesn't sound until 400ppm for 4 minutes (or 70ppm for 60 minutes)... sounds like a little too late for use in the airplane.

Maybe its better than nothing...

 

Is there a cheap Home Depot version that is designed to sound at a lower threshold?

[wishboneash]

I use the Ultra Low Level CO2 detector sold by Aeromedix.com.  Cost 199 and is far more sensitive than others.

 

http://www.aeromedix.com/carbon_monoxide_detectors/

 

Bob

 

I got the cheaper one

http://www.aeromedix.com/Pocket_CO_300_-_Carbon_Monoxide_Detector.html

 

Registers 0 to 3ppm most of the time.

[ArtVandelay]

Is the Home depot version sensitive enough to be useful in an airplane?  The Mike Busch article says you need a 30ppm alarm.

 

This Kiddie from Amazon says the alarm doesn't sound until 400ppm for 4 minutes (or 70ppm for 60 minutes)... sounds like a little too late for use in the airplane.

Maybe its better than nothing...

 

Is there a cheap Home Depot version that is designed to sound at a lower threshold?

That's the one I have, it registers as little as 11ppm, with digital readout you can monitor in real time, I never hear of the 30ppm limit....the device limits come from standards set by UL.  500ppm is considered lethal over many hours. Probably could mount it down by the flaps switch. I know when I had a hole in the muffler, the second I open cabin heat I knew something was wrong, so I don't think I'm in danger from that perspective, probably more of a concern of small leak that the nose can not detect.

[chrisk]

I use the Ultra Low Level CO2 detector sold by Aeromedix.com.  Cost 199 and is far more sensitive than others.

 

http://www.aeromedix.com/carbon_monoxide_detectors/

 

Bob

 

I have an older version of this, which is much bigger.  If I were buying another, this is what I would get. 

 

I'm also really liking Piloto's suggestion of putting it under the seat.  My fear is that one day it will go off and I'll be wondering what the heck that beeping is!  Right now, it just sits on my back seat.

[fantom]

I like 201er's carbon monoxide monitor

[DrBill]

I did some interesting research..  The home units are under UL2034 standard.  Here are the limits for UL2034:

UL-2034 MUST Alarm Levels & TIMES

Table 39.1

Carbon monoxide concentration versus time for alarm test points based on 10 percent

Carboxyhemoglobin,  (COHb)                    

A. Carbon monoxide concentration and response time

Concentration PPM ….. Response time, minutes

70 ±5 PPM  …..  60 – 240  minutes                 

150 ±5 PPM ….. 10 – 50  minutes                            

400 ±10 PPM  ….. 4 – 15  minutes       
As mentioned in this page, * http://www.coexperts.com/Unconstitutional.htm)   these limits are for healthy young individuals.  Old, sick folks are more sensitive.

So what are you  and your passengers ?  I would think MOST pilots are healthy and may not be young but for them this CO detector (one used for home) should be AOK.  If you normally carry your young children then perhaps you should spend the bigger bucks and get the one from Aeromedix. which will detect 7ppm real time. Your wife will probably give you the $200 !!

Very interesting topic.

BILL

[carusoam]

Gary,

That took me at least 30 seconds...

Must be a portable unit, I don't see any wires.

Best regards,

-a-

[JohnB]

I just flew with my new ultra sensitive CO2 monitor today by Aeromedix.

 

http://www.aeromedix.com/safety-equipment/carbon-monoxide-detectors/ultra-low-level-carbon-monoxide-detector-c-o-experts-2015-low-level-c-o-health/

 

I previously had one from home depot, which never sounded off in the cockpit. I had a prolonged hold in the runup area for clearance and the ultrasensitive alarm went off at 10ppm. It then continued to increase. I opened the side window vent and nothing happened to the CO2 levels. when it got up to 16 and rising, I opened the door (thinking I might have to ground the flight) and they came right back down to 0. Stayed at 0 in  flight. To this day, I never knew we were probably getting several doses of carbon monoxide when waiting clearance with our engine running all of these years which is not good!

 

Thanks Aeromedix!

[carusoam]

John,

Got a message that link needs to be updated....

http://www.aeromedix.com/safety-equipment/carbon-monoxide-detectors/

Is this the one you meant?

Best regards,

-a-

CO2 = not so bad... CO is the killer!