Mooney as first purchase

[deftone]

Hi everyone...new member and first post, although I have been lurking and doing research! I was pointed to this forum when asking questions over on PoA.

 

Im just about to take my PPL checkride, and assuming I pass I plan to buy my first aircraft.

To give a bit of background...I started out in a Piper Warrior, before changing schools to follow my CFI to his new job. At this new school they are all 172.

I much prefered the warrior over the 172, and as such have been tailoring my search to the PA28 series of aircraft. However recently I have been questioning if it fits my mission..or if I just feel a sense of attachment to them as it was the first aircraft I had flown.

My mission is as follows... As someone who works a 28day on, 28day off schedule, I have plenty of time to fly. I want something that will allow me to travel long distances, without leaving me homeless and broke. Payload is going to be myself or myself plus one, along with bags.

My mission within a mission is to visit all the MLB ballparks within one season  

I put some thought into one of the smaller twins, with the idea of going straight for my ME before Instrument to allow me to build up the ME hours...I still have the dream of flying for a living, however I am unsure if this is unrealistic right from gaining my PPL.

I have budgeted $50k, although I would like to stay nearer $40k to allow for anything that pops up on first inspection to be covered.

I love the Bellanca Super Viking, however finding a nice one within budget is a little tricky. This led me to the world of Mooney!

There are some nicely priced mooneys out there, now I have never flown one, or even sat in one, although I have had a good look at a few in person. What concerns me is the thought that this might be too much airplane for a low time pilot. I understand it is fast and slick, and through reading various forums I have heard tales of it being tricky to land for a noob pilot. Is this something that I should worry about? Will the mooney suit my mission?

[Bob_Belville]

With proper instruction and experience you will be able to move up to a Mooney shortly after getting your PPL. Many on this forum, myself included, started flying Mooneys with much less than 100 PIC time. And a Mooney should fit your mission perfectly.

 

An IFR ticket is much more useful than a ME rating. And much more work to achieve. 

 

A Mooney will give you much lower operating costs than a twin or a Viking.

 

Your acquisition budget is borderline low for a plane that will be completely satisfactory. There are plenty of Mooneys for sale below $50k but I doubt there are many with a reasonably modern panel, an engine that will not need overhaul for several years and a presentable interior/exterior. Panels and engines are expensive.

 

Get a ride in a Mooney. But be careful, most of the folks here will confirm that Mooneys are awfully addictive.

[pinerunner]

Mooney might be a great choice. If you're in a position to really be considering multiengine you should be able to afford the upkeep. It's a buyers market for Mooney's these days so I'd make sure its what you really want. I don't think you can beat Mooney's for long range fuel efficiency (maybe some of the experimental plane can).

 

Many of those selling Mooneys are motivated enough to let you fly it with an instructor. Don't expect the purchase price to be the end of the expense; the maintenance fun starts pretty quick. I'd have a mechanic lined up before a buy. I was lucky to find an airport with good hanger rates (you really do want a hanger) and one of the better mechanics in my state so it worked out great for me. I'd drive an extra half hour to keep my Mooney at a really great home base. 

[aviatoreb]

Mooney might be a great choice. If you're in a position to really be considering multiengine you should be able to afford the upkeep. It's a buyers market for Mooney's these days so I'd make sure its what you really want. I don't think you can beat Mooney's for long range fuel efficiency (maybe some of the experimental plane can).

 

Many of those selling Mooneys are motivated enough to let you fly it with an instructor. Don't expect the purchase price to be the end of the expense; the maintenance fun starts pretty quick. I'd have a mechanic lined up before a buy. I was lucky to find an airport with good hanger rates (you really do want a hanger) and one of the better mechanics in my state so it worked out great for me. I'd drive an extra half hour to keep my Mooney at a really great home base. 

 

That's quite right - but not to scare you that it stays especially expensive.  Generally it seems that buying a used airplane is much more expensive the first year regarding maintenance than in following years as you bring the airplane to your own personal standard of excellence.  This has been my experience in the two airplanes I have owned and what I observe from watching my friends buy airplanes.

[deftone]

Thanks for the prompt replies!

 

I should mention that my initial post is a copy and paste from my original PoA posting. At this point I have really decided that Mooney is the way forward, not a twin.

 

As such, I will be moving right into my IFR cert when I complete my PPL Checkride, Ideally I would complete the training in my own aircraft.

[deftone]

.

 

Your acquisition budget is borderline low for a plane that will be completely satisfactory.

 

I understand that $50k is pretty low for a panel with low time engine and upgraded modern panel, the reason for my set budget is that I dont really want to have a loan for the aircraft. The panel is not as important to me as a good quality airframe and powerplant. As long as the panel is solid and usable for IFR, I will be happy.

[deftone]

 

Many of those selling Mooneys are motivated enough to let you fly it with an instructor. Don't expect the purchase price to be the end of the expense; the maintenance fun starts pretty quick. I'd have a mechanic lined up before a buy. I was lucky to find an airport with good hanger rates (you really do want a hanger) and one of the better mechanics in my state so it worked out great for me. I'd drive an extra half hour to keep my Mooney at a really great home base. 

 

After hearing some corrosion horror storys during my research, I do plan on keeping it in a hanger. Hanger space down here in Texas isnt too hard to find for reasonable rates. I have begun looking for a mechanic already as I plan to get an inspection on whatever aircraft I choose. I have also considered using a broker...has anyone had any experience with brokers? Worth the money?

 

As an example of what I have been looking at...I found this 1976 M20C for $41k. Low hours, perfectly usable panel, 430 WAAS, perhaps needs some paint, but could help with negotiations. Good deal?

 

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/aircraft/Single+Engine+Piston/1976/Mooney/M20C+Ranger/1777417.html

[rbridges]

I understand that $50k is pretty low for a panel with low time engine and upgraded modern panel, the reason for my set budget is that I dont really want to have a loan for the aircraft. The panel is not as important to me as a good quality airframe and powerplant. As long as the panel is solid and usable for IFR, I will be happy.

 

 

50K will get you a good c model mooney, maybe even an e or f.  I mentioned this in the POA thread, check for leaks.  Mine didn't have any leaks at the time of purchase, but I started seeing blue streaks in the wheel wells a few months later.  Strip/reseals will run around 7k.  I went with bladders which lightened my bank account around 10K.

 

People will tell you to get a good prepurchase inspection at a reputable mooney facility.  Definitely worth the price when you get serious about a purchase.

 

This is the things I'd want in a plane:  WAAS GPS, autopilot and engine monitor.  The first 2 are fairly expensive to add on your own.  It's better to have the previous owner take the depreciation hit.  GPSS would be nice but isn't terribly expensive to add later.  The 201 windshield mod is a good speed mod that a lot of vintage birds have.  

[Houman]

I was in the similar situation as you are couple of months ago. I got my PPL over a year ago doing my entire training on a C172, then rented a Beech Sundowner ( similar to PA28 ) and did another 75 hours on it, I had barely 100h as PIC before I jumped in and bought what I call the beast, Mooney M20K Rocket.

Anyhow, what I would suggest is once you find the plane you want, get a pre-purchase inspection with your trusted mechanic, ask him to tell you why you shouldn't buy this plane instead of why you should, and then ask the current owner for a test flight. Once you buy the right Mooney, make sure you get a mooney experienced CFII to give you enough training. These birds are a bit more complex that 172 and are real slick, you have to be on the numbers at flare time....

Have fun, I enjoy my bird, specially seeing 228 Kts on the GPS Ground speed indicator puts a smile on my face...

[Seth]

I purchased a 1967 Mooney M20F model at about 120 hours in various rental aircraft. I then got my IFR rating and after a few years sold the F and purchased a 1983 Mooney M20J Missile 300.

For $50,000 you can get a C, E, or F. For those types of trips, I would suggest an E or F for the extra 20 ponies and fuel injection. It'll help with higher altitude flight so you can get to all your bloats and are anywhere from 5-10 knots faster than the C and 2-5 knots faster than the F. Modified, they'll match if not beat a J for speed (same engine lighter airframe - short body).

I know of two E's that have recently sold for less than $50,000

Good luck!

-Seth

[DrBill]

On the test flight with the owner. Have him demonstrate EVERY piece of avionics (even if you don't know how to operate it).  Have him take the time to show you. If he does not, or will not,  consider that piece of avionics to be INOP and adjust the price accordingly.   When I bought mine, the owner showed me everything and even how the autopilot and gps got coupled and we did a gps approach to his airport (non-towered). He let the box fly the airplane to 50 ft (just adjusting throttle to stay on glideslope) then pushed the button and landed.   This told me he really trusted the electronics and they were good to go.  Still are after 3 years !

BILL

[Alan Fox]

Contact Kurt Snyder on this site , He has a Plane that would fit your mission perfectly.....Its an amazing bird and its 35K .....

[rbuck]

As to a Mooney as a first purchase, it's exactly what I did. I purchased my C with about 150 hours, and all that I'd really flown was 172s and PA-28s. My mission was similar. Cross countries and not many people. Flying a Mooney is a little different, but as long as you have a good instructor who's familiar with Mooneys do your check ride with you, you'll get the hang of it pretty quickly. It's an efficient plane, too-probably one of the cheaper planes to fly as much as I do. 

[rbridges]

As to a Mooney as a first purchase, it's exactly what I did. I purchased my C with about 150 hours, and all that I'd really flown was 172s and PA-28s. My mission was similar. Cross countries and not many people. Flying a Mooney is a little different, but as long as you have a good instructor who's familiar with Mooneys do your check ride with you, you'll get the hang of it pretty quickly. It's an efficient plane, too-probably one of the cheaper planes to fly as much as I do. 

 

I think that's a pretty typical history for mooney owners.  I know it fits me exactly.

[bonal]

If your budget is 50k you might want to keep your price point under 40 because as you will see on many posts about first Mooney's the first year is always going to be pricey. Not always the case I'm sure but it seems to be the consensus of most folks here.

Good luck and be sure to get a good PPI.

Fun fun fun!

[DaV8or]

If you're serious about the professional pilot career, my advice would be to not get too attached to your new Mooney and don't do any upgrades, improvements, or mods. The reason why is, assuming you have the money, I think you should take advantage of the ridiculously depressed twin market and buy a light twin, get your MEL and build as many hours as possible. This means you would be selling the Mooney likely in about a year. Any money you put into it, you will not get back.

 

In professional aviation, complex hours mean nothing, multi engine means a lot. The only thing better is turbine, but the turbine market is likely out of reach for ownership and time building.

[Mooneymite]

...

In professional aviation, complex hours mean nothing, multi engine means a lot. The only thing better is turbine, but the turbine market is likely out of reach for ownership and time building.

Generally, I agree. However, my son got his first jet-job specifically because of all the Mooney time in his logbook. Apparently, this employer thought a Mooney was a good building block and mentioned it several times.

[Houman]

How about 181 KTs ground speed in a C? (A low time C that way purchased right at the posters preferred budget around 40k!)

+1 ... On the above comments. I did all the above (asked owner for ride, got Mooney experienced instructor training etc) and I an a high time pilot. Right on the numbers on short final into the flare is key ..

++1 You will spend more on maintenance the first year. Additionally, I almost broke the bank with my penchant for speed mods ...

not wanting to one up anyone, but here is one from my last weekend trip...

[MARZ]

I can do that downhill too. Lol

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Houman]

That is one thing Maniacs can gloat to other pilots.

I was actually so proud to go over 200 as a pilot for the very 1st time, I have been stuck in the low 100's with the C172 and C23(beech sundowner) since I got my license...

sorry if I went overboard with it

[GeorgePerry]

http://mooneyspace.com/topic/8-prospective-vintage-mooney-buyers/?hl=%2Bperspective+%2Bvintage+%2Bmooney

 

Hopefully you find this helpful as you search.

[urbanti]

These questions on Internet forums, i.e. "I'm a low time student pilot and I want to buy a complex cross-country aircraft" always draw a lot of positive responses from forum enthusiasts.

However, in addition to assuming you have a really good pre-buy inspection by a legit expert, and assuming transition training with a CFI who knows Mooneys, we are assuming that you have decent stick and rudder skills and above average aviation decision making capability. We're also assuming that Mooney ergonomics will be comfortable for you, which is true for many but not all humans.

Before you buy, you should really get some seat time in a Mooney, a Tiger, an Arrow, and a Debonaire. They will all go faster than the fixed gear trainers you have been learning on, and they will each provide a vastly different flight experience.

If you're a Mooney guy at heart, you'll know it

Good luck

Tim

[Houman]

Overboard? Not at all. I enjoyed your post. Post away ... I proudly posted my 181 ....!!!!

I hope you meant mOOniacs?

:-)

Freaking autocorrect.. yes, I meant Mooniacs...

[carusoam]

Autocorrect programmers fly Cezznas!

-a-

[Hank]

http://mooneyspace.com/topic/8-prospective-vintage-mooney-buyers/?hl=%2Bperspective+%2Bvintage+%2Bmooney

 

Hopefully you find this helpful as you search.

 

Welcome back, George! Congrats on the new job.

 

This is an excellent post that I have recommended several times to prospective buyers. Wonder if Craig could make it a sticky? It's chock full of great information and things to look for [positives and negatives].

 

To the OP, have fun looking for a plane. There's no need to rush, enjoy the process and fly often after you bring one home, so that you will learn its systems, habits and numbers. Trainers are very forgiving, but being fast on final in a Mooney is a bad thing. It can be corrected with a go-around and a slower second try; otherwise you risk either going off the end of the runway or forcing it down, porpoising and having a prop strike.

 

Flown correctly, with attention and at the right speeds, Mooneys are great traveling machines and are not hard to land. Five knots/mph too fast, though, and that landing will be a challenge.