M-20 TN-Kit

[mcolond]

Hello,

Is there anyone with first hand experience with the M-20 TN kit.  I fly a very nice/well equiped 201 but find myself needing a little more range and altitude for long (700nm) flights.  I have thought about adding this mod but I hear other owners have had issues with this particular installation.

Anyone out there with first hand experience on this kit?

Manny

[mooniac58]

I too would love to hear more from people who have done this.  Thanks!

[KSMooniac]

The is one lister on the aviating.com email list that has one of those kits on his J and is quite happy.  I've corresponded briefly with him a few months ago as I am quite interested too.  However, their price is beyond comprehension, IMO.  I'd much rather have a TN-Lycoming than a TSIO-360 Continental of the M20K, but there isn't a really good way to convince myself it is worth 40 AMU.

[Mcstealth]

I have talked to Don Maxwell about this exact kit and he says they perform as advertized. He has in the past installed them for customers, and he quoted some numbers about time for intall, but sorry I don't remember them. He did say a competent mechanic could do it himself, but wouldn't recommend it of course. I have seached for Mooneys with this kit installed in the trades, but they are scarce. If it were me and I had the money, I would probably do it.

McStealth

[alun]

forgive my ignorance but what is this kit?

[GeorgePerry]

http://www.m-20turbos.com/content/products/turbo.php?link=turbohttp://www.m-20turbos.com/index.php?link=news'>

[alun]

looks good but one hell of a lot on money. 

[GeorgePerry]

It makes sense if you plan on keeping your bird for many years and do it in conjunction with an overhaul.  35K is a big chunk of money to spend on an E,F or J that's only worth $50-100K to begin with.  The numbers are hard to beat and the ability to get above wx and mountains sure would be nice...but it's hard to justify that level of cost when you could just buy a 231 or 252 for the same or a bit more money.  With a factory turbo, you'll be able to recoupe the investment.  With an aftermarket add on you might get 50c on the dollar.

[KSMooniac]

If that kit were available for $15-20k, I would right this very minute be figuring out a way to get it on my J, but at $34k+instl I won't even ask for more details about it.  I believe the creator/owner of that company has gone west and the widow is "in charge" now.  Makes me wonder if they are selling any at that price...

[Magnum]

Maybe we can arrange a "group order" to get the price down... For 20 AMUs plus installation I'd jump in.

[mooniac58]

Quote: Magnum

Maybe we can arrange a "group order" to get the price down... For 20 AMUs plus installation I'd jump in.

 Count me in too...

[alun]

sold to the man with the half price upgrades!

[Chris White ex-N205KD]

I think we'd be in, too, for $20k instead of $35k.  And this is after we just spent $50k + on a fresh overhaul and avionics makeover!

An owner with one of these in his 201 posted numbers of 174KTAS at 9.8 GPH in his, FL130.  Hard to beat that!

Incidentally, I received a call from Mrs. Sandman, widow of the developer of the M-20Turbo, and they were offering the TN kit at $29k if you bought before the end of 2008.  Maybe she's starting to see the logic of more sales if the price was closer to $20k rather than $40k.  We can only hope...

 

[mooniac58]

Quote: mooney205kd

I think we'd be in, too, for $20k instead of $35k.  And this is after we just spent $50k + on a fresh overhaul and avionics makeover!

An owner with one of these in his 201 posted numbers of 174KTAS at 9.8 GPH in his, FL130.  Hard to beat that!

Incidentally, I received a call from Mrs. Sandman, widow of the developer of the M-20Turbo, and they were offering the TN kit at $29k if you bought before the end of 2008.  Maybe she's starting to see the logic of more sales if the price was closer to $20k rather than $40k.  We can only hope...

 

 Get 5 of of MooneySpace'ers together and tell me she can resist $100,000 ?

[GeorgePerry]

Quote: mooniac58

 Get 5 of of MooneySpace'ers together and tell me she can resist $100,000 ?

[Chris White ex-N205KD]

Unfortunately, I think there'd be very little chance of her letting these go for $16k in order to get the total installed cost to $20k. That's less than half what she's advertising for right now.

The installation costs will also vary, depending on where you get it put on. M20-Turbos is not a shop, so they cannot do it. They just sell you the paper and collect the parts. Mrs. Sandman does have a list of shops that have done successful installs.

$30k installed might be a more realistic target for a group buy, but we can always hope!

[Seth]

I would probably be in for a group order at an extremely discounted rate as well.  Otherwise it just doesn't make sense considering the current market value of my M20F.  Are there any book speed for a M20F with this TN Kit?  The J according to a previous post by mooney205kd was:

An owner with one of these in his 201 posted numbers of 174KTAS at 9.8 GPH in his, FL130

-Seth

[Chris White ex-N205KD]

Quote: Seth

I would probably be in for a group order at an extremely discounted rate as well.  Otherwise it just doesn't make sense considering the current market value of my M20F.  Are there any book speed for a M20F with this TN Kit?  The J according to a previous post by mooney205kd was:

An owner with one of these in his 201 posted numbers of 174KTAS at 9.8 GPH in his, FL130

-Seth

[Seth]

I've seen TN M20Fs out there that are not modified with the J Cowl or windsheild.  Are those kits still available?  Do they not make them anymore?  Costs?

[Greg_D]

Quote: Seth

I've seen TN M20Fs out there that are not modified with the J Cowl or windsheild.  Are those kits still available?  Do they not make them anymore?  Costs?

[mooniac58]

Quote: JimR

Are there any book speed for a M20F with this TN Kit?

For what it's worth, Seth, their website and ads prominently claim "Get 189 Knots from your E, F or J Mooney?  Yes You Can!" 

 I think for this you will need to file IFR, strap on O2 and get into FL220.  And as with all published speeds, you will likely need to be a 120lb pilot with 10 gallons in each tank and zero cargo/passengers

The published performance charts are below.

I am fairly confident that if we all came together and wanted 5+ units at $20K (yes, you will still pay onther $5K or so with your A&P) she might be very tempted by the money.  I am thinking the majority of the cost of these is to recover R&D and paperwork/testing - much of which feels like water under the bridge after many years.  In this economy $100K+ looks pretty good in most people's bank accounts

[TurboExec]

Quote: Seth

I would probably be in for a group order at an extremely discounted rate as well.  Otherwise it just doesn't make sense considering the current market value of my M20F.  Are there any book speed for a M20F with this TN Kit?  The J according to a previous post by mooney205kd was:

An owner with one of these in his 201 posted numbers of 174KTAS at 9.8 GPH in his, FL130

-Seth

[Chris White ex-N205KD]

So who here is really, HONESTLY, put-your-money-where-your-mouth-is serious about this?  I would be happy to approach Mrs. Sandman about this, but I would prefer not to do so unless we had a list of owners ready to go.  Perhaps with money in escrow?  Any ideas?

Quote: mooniac58

 Get 5 of of MooneySpace'ers together and tell me she can resist $100,000 ?

[Chris White ex-N205KD]

Yes, there was an STC out there for a Rajay system, complete with the "dual throttle" and no intercooler.  The M20Turbos system is different, and does require the front end makeover.  M20Turbos uses only the standard throttle, not a separate one for the turbo.

Quote: Seth

I've seen TN M20Fs out there that are not modified with the J Cowl or windsheild.  Are those kits still available?  Do they not make them anymore?  Costs?

[KSMooniac]

Chris, I'm somewhat interested in the M20 kit, but it would likely have to get down to 15 AMU for me to jump.  I'm already planning a LoPresti Cowl and paint this year, and I'm not sure if the M20 kit would be compatible with the new cowl system.  If I go ahead with my plans, I would have to defer until next year (likely) for the turbo kit.

I'm also toying around with idea of rolling-my-own TN setup, but that is another story altogether.  Long shot, but I'm thinking about it as a one-off 337 field approval.