Custome & Border Patrol Finally stopped me--with armed police

[rockydoc]

Didn't get his badge number, but got his card.  His name is Louis E. Weaver,, Air Interdiction Agent, US Dep't of Homeland Security, 400 Judge Leon Ford Drive, Hammond, LA 70401, Tele 985 902 2200.

It happened at New Orleans Lake Front airport, KNEW, immediately outside of the Flightline First FBO, while J. Brayton Matthews, general manager and his entire flight line crew watched.

As you probably know, I live in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico.  I had crossed the border into KBRO the day before, cleared customs and immigration there where they searched the airplane and sold me this years Customs Decal by charging it on my credit card and giving me a receipt.  The next day we left KBRo and went to 3R7 to refuel and then continued on to KNEW where Louis E. Weaver waited until I parked and then came over to the airplane and started the process.

The dog was on the outside of the airplane with his handler.  The handler from the New Orleans Police Department told the customs agent that the dog gave a "positive result."

You know the rest.

As far as suing the government under a Title 1981, 1982, or 1983 or any other basis--forget it!

The lesson I learned is that if it happens again, I will take anything I need (phone book with the cell phone number of an attorney member of this forum) with me as well as money and anything else I need (cell phone) and leave when he tells me I am free to go, immediately calling an attorney while secretly recording everything on the smart phone.

[rockydoc]

Oh, and yes...the dog did scratch the paint in several places.  At one time, he lunged up on the wind and proceded to walk the entire wing--holding on by his toe nails to keep from sliding off.

[rockydoc]

I am a positive guy as most of you are.  It would be nothing but an exercise in futility and negative energy expended to try and sue any government entity in the USA.  I am and have been a developer in Mexico for 20 years.. During that 20 years, I have had to obtain several "Amparos" against the Mexican government when they wrongly issued stop work orders, revoked building permits, etc. etc.  FYI, an Amparo is a Restraining Order against the government that prohibits the government from interfering with my work while the government and i are arguing about for 5+ years in court to determine who is right and who is not right..  You see, in Mexico, the individual's rights out weight the government's rights.  An Amparo protects citizens from government interference.   In the USA we have no such freedom.  This is one of the main reasons I live and develop in Mexico and have dual citizenship.

[rockydoc]

One other comment, I had filed my eAPIS Homeland Security manifest and flight plan a couple of weeks ahead of time, crossed the border into KBRO on time.  When I arrived at US Customs, the said, "You must be Mr._________."  The proceded to check me in, search my airplane and sell me the new customs decall.  I left the airplane overnight at Hun Pan American FBO in a secured location.  After spending the night with friends, returned to KBRO the next day, took off and flew to 3R7 for refueling.  Then went to KNEW.

[Yetti]

Well it is good to know that the government is watching us, because you looked like a drug runner going to all those places :-)   It would nice if CBP would work as hard at human trafficking as they do chasing normal citizens.  The goal with all the FOI requests and talking to people bosses is to see how much you can return the favor of being hassled.   Lawsuit would go no where.  You were within his area to chat with you.   The FAA and his bosses may want to know that CBP is trying to enforce FAA laws.

[cujet]

I'm sorry you had to deal with belligerent government agents. I get the privilege of dealing with CBP agents regularly, they suck. In my dealings with them, I refuse to be interrogated right from the start. Name, rank, serial number (in essence) , nothing else. I don't let the attitude affect me, and trust me, it is not easy keeping a smile on my face. They have this down to a science. If it drags on, I demand the presence of my lawyer. There are very few things I will ever say to them. 

 

Internet advice is, in reality, worthless. Everybody has an opinion and some of the higher bandwidth individuals have valid thoughts on the matter. I will suggest this: Nothing you do is going to affect the outcome. I suggest silence for reasons of self protection. 

 

I'd love to share a large number of stories with you, but in the interest of keeping it brief.... 

 

We (flight crew on a corporate aircraft) had a CBP agent actually threaten us with deadly force, quite angrily I may add. The crime? Supposed video and audio recording of CBP agents at work. Note: From a human nature standpoint, it was an interesting spiral of events in the agents head, as he worked through the possible charges he could bring to bear against us. In any case, he settled with a sure bet, "wiretap and video" charges, and then the gun came out. As I am sure he believed we had iPhones in our pockets and could somehow justify his awful behavior. Being the prepared individual that I am, I advised the other crewmember that we leave our phones in the aircraft, so we did. (remember, they occasionally confiscate electronics and download the information contained) (often erasing information in the process) We got lucky that time, as the only things on our persons were passports and empty wallets. Was there any sort of reason for the belligerent behavior? No, we did nothing to cause problems, other than we crossed paths with a tyrant. The same distorted individual we come across every week. 

 

You can't imagine the infuriating situation when the CBP agents removed the engine cowls from our Lear with thrust reversers. (the top cowl is also the TR, with it's associated electrical and hydraulic connections) 

 

Another thought, what's the published maximum load per unit area on the upper wing skin? The dog may have exceeded that load rating, necessitating an upper wing skin replacement. I'm guessing the dog walked in the "no step" area. From a technical standpoint, stepping there is absolutely prohibited.  Think I'm being absurd? Think again. Many aircraft cannot handle concentrated loads on the upper wing skins. If you would like to know the reasons why, PM me. 

[FlyDave]

This discussion has prompted a question in my mind for the attorneys on the board:

Why are people talking about "secretly" video recording an incident like this? Why couldn't you just tell the agent that you are recording this - for your protection and theirs?

[201er]

Now we know how the folks of Iraq and Afganistan feel. I bet all of those government, quasi military, actors spent time there and got their police training there. All the control and intimidation techniques that you described were developed in and for those theatres. We repress others at the risk of being repressed ourselves.

Actually I'd say they tend to be more polite and reasonable. I was there recently.

[rob]

This discussion has prompted a question in my mind for the attorneys on the board:

Why are people talking about "secretly" video recording an incident like this? Why couldn't you just tell the agent that you are recording this - for your protection and theirs?

You could. I'm married to a Journalist; she won't hesitate to ready her phone in such a situation.

[Z W]

You may generally video police officers conducting an investigation in a public place as long as you do not interfere with the investigation.

Juries get mad about these cases. Do not assume you would lose your case. We value our freedoms here and our jurors hold the government accountable. If you do not sue, they got away with it. The courts have decided civil lawsuits are the check and balance for illegal search and seizures.

I would take your case in a heartbeat if it did not have to be filed in Louisiana. I would take it on contingency where you never had to pay me out of pocket. And I would try to blow the lid off this CPB illegal search epidemic.

With Louisiana being 3 hours away by Mooney,and me not practicing there, I can't do it. But please at least talk to a lawyer there. Otherwise we have to wait until they pull this on someone like me. And by then it may be too late for a lot of pilots.

[DonMuncy]

Zane, can you get punitive damages from the feds or the locals. I wouldn't think you could scrape up enough actual damages to hurt them.

[Yetti]

14. I then stood by while he emptied my airplane and took out seats and panels searching everywhere.

 

If he in your pilot's opinion made the aircraft unworthy to fly, then you as a pilot/owner have to get it inspected again.  That would be your first damages.   Call the FSDO and ask them why US government officials were disassembling your plane and if the FSDO had authorized them to.  Start asking for Louis E. Weaver's A&P or pilot's certificate since those are the only people who can work on a certified airplane.  Then ask why they are not enforcing the FARs.

 

Call the Sargent on duty of the police department and ask how they are going to pay to have your plane repainted.  Ask for his email and send him pictures. Get statements from the FBO people that they saw the dogs on the wings.  Tell him you have witnesses with statements.  Ask to speak to Internal Affairs.    Keep escalating it up till you are talking to the chief of police.  Then the police commission, then the mayor.  Also be mentioning the whole time how the police officer had the dog make a fake hit.  All you are trying to do is make it so the Police don't want to work with the CBP.

As far as videoing it.  There is some rule that you can't video airport security checkpoints, or so a TSA agent informed me...  (which is kind of funny since at Denver you could go upstairs and video the checkpoint all you want) since KNEW is not a point of entry, it is questionable if the CBP rules apply there.  Since they were trampling your other rights, I am sure they would not hesitate to trample the right to video.

 

I think the key here is they are monitoring all the flights of GA pilots.

[Yetti]

oh and start talking about the wrong thing on here and know that this board will be monitored also.   I used to have the key list of words.   Before that guy told us stuff about things.  We had a server start sending traffic to a country of former red and a three letter agency let us know.

[Bob_Belville]

 

 

Another thought, what's the published maximum load per unit area on the upper wing skin? The dog may have exceeded that load rating, necessitating an upper wing skin replacement. I'm guessing the dog walked in the "no step" area. From a technical standpoint, stepping there is absolutely prohibited.  Think I'm being absurd? Think again. Many aircraft cannot handle concentrated loads on the upper wing skins. If you would like to know the reasons why, PM me. 

[AndyFromCB]

Happy Easter everyone. When those commercials for "Progressive" candidates come up decide if you want more of the same, or if you want change..

 

It's actually a complete product now, with right and left written all over it. The right starting the drug war with Nixon and Reagan at the helm and taking it to extreme levels in the name of "freedom" and the children and then the left making sure that the rules apply equally and not just to darker toned fellows. 

[cujet]

 

 

 

 

I've seen that picture before. However, each person is standing directly on the spar, and the load is evenly distributed. 

 

Consider what happens when 80 pounds of dog paw is concentrated in 3 square inches of unsupported sheet aluminum. (which by the way is far beyond the 1G load of 17 pounds per square foot) . Or put another way, the structural limit of 2.5x the 1G load.   The aluminum can be slightly stretched and that section of the skin is no longer in tension when subjected to loads. Thereby placing higher loads on the surrounding structure. 

 

Also, consider what happens when the dog walks on a fabric wing. We really need to educate CBP about airframe structural limitations. 

[Mooneymite]

From CBP web-site:

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/176/kw/civil%20rights

In part, it says:

>The exact legal citation for our search authority can be found in Title 19 of the United States Code, Sections 482, 1467, 1496, 1581 and 1582. All persons, baggage, and other merchandise arriving in or leaving the United States are subject to inspection and seach by CBP officers. Various laws (including 8 United States Code (U.S.C.) 1357, 19 U.S.C. 482, 1581, 1582) enforced by CBP authorize such searches. As part of the inspection process, CBP officers must verify the identity of persons, determine the admissibility of travelers, and look for possible terrorist weapons, controlled substances, and a variety of other prohibited items.<

I'm not sure that this would cover aircraft on a flight between two domestic points since it specifies "...arriving in or leaving the United States."

In my work, I have to deal with CBP a lot. I am so happy that the public at large is becoming aware of the abuses of the CBP. Maybe there will be a large enough protest to reel these hoodlums in.  The hoodlums comprise only about 5%, but guess which "agents" you'll remember!

[Z W]

Zane, can you get punitive damages from the feds or the locals. I wouldn't think you could scrape up enough actual damages to hurt them.

 

Yes.  There are two claims here (which could be brought in the same lawsuit).  The claim against the DHS agent, since he is a federal agent, is called a "Bivens Action," named after the case that created the cause of action.  The claim against the New Orleans PD would be an action under 42 USC 1983.

 

Both Bivens actions and 1983 actions provide for punitive damages if the violations are proved to be egregious enough. 1983 actions also provide the injured party with his attorneys fees, by statute. 

 

If not for punitive damages and statutory attorneys fees, these cases would never be viable. But they are.

[Bob_Belville]

Naive question, where's our congress? Surely they know what's going on and should be providing oversight. 

[sleepingsquirrel]

Naive question, where's our congress? Surely they know what's going on and should be providing oversight. 

Speaking of which. I'd Like the OP's permission to forward his story to my representation , with the question,

                                             "Am I to expect this is likely to happen to me?"

[chrisk]

Yes.  There are two claims here (which could be brought in the same lawsuit).  The claim against the DHS agent, since he is a federal agent, is called a "Bivens Action," named after the case that created the cause of action.  The claim against the New Orleans PD would be an action under 42 USC 1983.

 

Both Bivens actions and 1983 actions provide for punitive damages if the violations are proved to be egregious enough. 1983 actions also provide the injured party with his attorneys fees, by statute. 

 

If not for punitive damages and statutory attorneys fees, these cases would never be viable. But they are.

 

I don't know the laws in LA, but in TX they have something called "Official Oppression".  This law makes it a crime when an official  "intentionally subjects another to mistreatment or arrest, detention, search, seizure, dispossession, assessment, or lien that he knows is unlawful".  It might be worth a check to see if LA has a similar law.   The local police could be on the hook, since they participated.

[rockydoc]

Speaking of which. I'd Like the OP's permission to forward his story to my representation , with the question,

                                             "Am I to expect this is likely to happen to me?"

Use it as you see fit if it serves your purpose.  You have my permission.

[NotarPilot]

This reeks of a government gone mad.  I'm sorry this happened to you.  This is not the America we should have.

[OR75]

this was a domestic flight ?

[Yetti]

If by chance you are a Protected Class all sorts of other laws will come into play.

 

Another key phrase "At this point in time I would like to terminate this interview"  should be utilized. 

 

I have wondered if you could use this FAR as long as you are still tying down the plane and locking it up.  If they stop you from maintaining the safety of the Aircraft and taking care of your passengers.  Call the FBI and have them come down.  

 

§ 91.11 Prohibition on interference with crewmembers.

No person may assault, threaten, intimidate, or interfere with a crewmember in the performance of the crewmember's duties aboard an aircraft being operated.