ZamF16 Posted April 2, 2014 Report Posted April 2, 2014 I seem to have an electrical issue and could use some advice from anyone who has seen something similar. About a year ago, I replaced the right battery, because it would no longer hold a charge (it was about 3 years old). Now I am having the same problem with my new battery (a Gill 243S also installed in the right position). I certainly expected the new battery to last more than a year, but while it does charge some during flight, it is dead again in about two weeks. I checked to make sure everything is turned off, to include the interior lights. Also, it doesn't seem to matter what position the battery switch is in, the battery is dead in about two weeks. The only other indication that something might be wrong is a differential in the alternator loads. Since I bought my Mooney 2.5 years ago, the left alternator always carries more load then the right (about twice as much). But I don't know the way the left and right alternators are wired to know if there might be a problem on the right side indicated by the lower right alternator load. I am going to buy a charger and get the battery back to a full charge and then see if I can detect a current draw from the battery when all power is off, but am interested to see if anyone recognizes this issue. Dave Quote
carusoam Posted April 2, 2014 Report Posted April 2, 2014 Search the word Concorde... It will be followed by phrases like death of the second Gil in two years.... I really like my Gil batteries, because they are built by the TCM family of companies. Who also built my engine and generator. I even bought their battery charger to complete the set. If I had a Lycoming, I would prefer the Concorde. Then the choice of gel cell /sealed would be next... TCM doesn't seem to have a handle on this one... Best regards, -a- Quote
carqwik Posted April 2, 2014 Report Posted April 2, 2014 I never got more than 20 months out of the Gill 243S in my Bravo. However, I also used a non-aviation 24V 5A charger which probably killed a few weak batteries...and likely did little to lengthen time in service on good batteries anyways. I bought Gills only cause they were less expensive than the Concordes...but then I wised up and bought a BatteryMinder specific for the 24V AGM Concordes when I switched to the RG24-15. So far so good....but this was last fall and we haven't hit summer here in Phoenix....temps in the hangar probably go above 130 degrees on hot days... I've heard that the Concorde AGM batteries today are far superior to the Gills...so I am now going to find out. Quote
Danb Posted April 2, 2014 Report Posted April 2, 2014 I have a2005 Bravo and changed both my batteries out of guilt at my last annual, getting 8 yrs out of each without any problems. The MSC said they were in perfect condition. Quote
Marauder Posted April 2, 2014 Report Posted April 2, 2014 Can't speak for the Bravo abuse of batteries but have great luck with the Concorde series RG series. First one was removed after 7 years because I thought it was getting long in the tooth. This one has been in 9 years and still going strong. The Gills before these never lasted more than a couple of years. Sent using Tapatalk 1 Quote
Danb Posted April 2, 2014 Report Posted April 2, 2014 Chris that's what I had was Concorde like yours and they lasted 8 yrs and still was going strong and I never even had to charge it since 2005... 1 Quote
ZamF16 Posted April 2, 2014 Author Report Posted April 2, 2014 My number 1 battery is a Concorde and it is going strong. The number 2 battery that seems to have lasted only a year is a Gill. I guess I was wondering if the low draw on the right alternator could be aggravating things. I spent some time in the maintenance manual last night trying to better understand the electrical buss setup; however, there are no simple drawings of the overall electrical system. I suppose I am lucky if the problem is just a poor quality battery. Quote
AndyFromCB Posted April 2, 2014 Report Posted April 2, 2014 I seem to have an electrical issue and could use some advice from anyone who has seen something similar. About a year ago, I replaced the right battery, because it would no longer hold a charge (it was about 3 years old). Now I am having the same problem with my new battery (a Gill 243S also installed in the right position). I certainly expected the new battery to last more than a year, but while it does charge some during flight, it is dead again in about two weeks. I checked to make sure everything is turned off, to include the interior lights. Also, it doesn't seem to matter what position the battery switch is in, the battery is dead in about two weeks. The only other indication that something might be wrong is a differential in the alternator loads. Since I bought my Mooney 2.5 years ago, the left alternator always carries more load then the right (about twice as much). But I don't know the way the left and right alternators are wired to know if there might be a problem on the right side indicated by the lower right alternator load. I am going to buy a charger and get the battery back to a full charge and then see if I can detect a current draw from the battery when all power is off, but am interested to see if anyone recognizes this issue. Dave There has to be some sort electrical gremlin in the system. Simply disconnect the battery terminals and do a simply resistance test between the two terminals with everything off. It should read zero, well, actually infinity. Not the battery terminals but the cables going to it. As to alternator loads, pretty common "problem", the way the dual voltage regulator functions, is in slave/master mode, so both alternators are actually running of a single section of the voltage regulator board so depending on alternator, one does more work than the other. Both feed the buss at the same time, so it should have no effect on charging whatsoever. But that should have no effect on charging capabilities. As to Gills, it's a crap shoot. My current set is just fine after a year and half. Went thru 3 replacements in just 6 months before this set. They would last about 2 weeks, just like yours. Quote
FlyDave Posted April 2, 2014 Report Posted April 2, 2014 Guys, The batteries in my Bravo were replaced every 1.5 years before I bought it in December. A couple of people said (including David McGee at All American and it was in the "Mooney Flyer" last issue) that if you don't flip the battery switch on the right side of the panel before each flight the batteries will need to be replaced frequently. I've been flipping it religiously so I'll see how long the Gills in my plane last. Either way, when I do have to replace them I will put Concord's in. I don't think this is causing Zam's issue but just as an FYI. Dave Quote
N201MKTurbo Posted April 2, 2014 Report Posted April 2, 2014 I have never worked on a Bravo and I'm not familiar with its charging system. That being said there is no reason why these batteries should be failing so fast. Either they are being undercharged and are failing from sulphation or they are being over charged and are failing from out gassing. This can be easily checked. With the engine running and the batteries recharged after the start, measure the terminal voltage on the batteries. It should be 13.6 (27.2) for a flooded cell battery and 14.2 (28.4) for an RG battery. If it is more then 1/2V (1V) from these numbers then you need to fix it. side note: FWIW last Friday I got to fix the charging system on Bob Hoover's P51 Mustang (currently owned by John B. of Rexburg, ID). That was quite a thrill. Quote
N201MKTurbo Posted April 2, 2014 Report Posted April 2, 2014 A quick tutorial on battery voltages: http://www.powerstream.com/SLA.htm Quote
ZamF16 Posted April 2, 2014 Author Report Posted April 2, 2014 There has to be some sort electrical gremlin in the system. Simply disconnect the battery terminals and do a simply resistance test between the two terminals with everything off. It should read zero, well, actually infinity. Not the battery terminals but the cables going to it. As to alternator loads, pretty common "problem", the way the dual voltage regulator functions, is in slave/master mode, so both alternators are actually running of a single section of the voltage regulator board so depending on alternator, one does more work than the other. Both feed the buss at the same time, so it should have no effect on charging whatsoever. But that should have no effect on charging capabilities. As to Gills, it's a crap shoot. My current set is just fine after a year and half. Went thru 3 replacements in just 6 months before this set. They would last about 2 weeks, just like yours. Thanks for the fidelity on the way the dual voltage regulator works. That is the piece I was missing. I am going to pull the battery tonight and will check the aircraft circuit resistance as you recommended. Quote
flyboy0681 Posted April 2, 2014 Report Posted April 2, 2014 Sounds vaguely familiar. We got about 14 months of use on our Gil battery. We are hoping the Concorde that we had installed last week lasts a lot longer. Quote
ZamF16 Posted April 3, 2014 Author Report Posted April 3, 2014 A quick tutorial on battery voltages: http://www.powerstream.com/SLA.htm Thanks for the battery tutorial. It filled my clue bag a bit as to the pros/cons of the various chargers and the voltage issues with respect to battery life. Quote
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