Updated Panel Pilot Report

[donkaye]

I posted this to the other 2 Mooney lists, but thought those who don't monitor them might be interested, too.  So here it is.

 

I now have nearly 20 hours behind the new panel including a 4 hour round trip between San Jose and Carlsbad, California, so can give a little insight into the experience.  I think it is best to go one piece of equipment at a time.  But first a little summary:  Those 4 hours went by so fast that I thought about reducing power enroute to make the trip last longer (of course it didn’t help that I had tailwinds going both directions).  I knew it was going to be fun to fly it, but it has far exceeded my expectations.

First the G500.  I have it interfaced with the GLD69A for weather and XM, the GTS 800 for active traffic, the GAD43e for autopilot and altitude and vertical speed preselect, and the KN 63 for DME.  It works flawlessly.  I never had DME hold before and now I do.  I didn’t put in an external switch for GPSS to Heading; just push and hold the HDG button and the transfer is complete.  Likewise select an altitude and hold the ALT button and Altitude is armed.  Same for vertical speed.  Select a VS and hold the VS button to start a climb or descent.  It works and behaves just like the KAS 297B.  Synthetic Vision was worth the money.  In addition to terrain, traffic popped up on it numerous times.  No more manual calculation of TAS, it’s there.  In the past I thought the MFD would be worthless.  It’s not.  Multiple screens in MAP mode with weather and traffic overlays.  XM radio and active  traffic can also be controlled from here in addition to the GTNs.  Garmin gives you a free month of all data and charts.  I was surprised that I found the Chart for the ILS into San Jose useful.  I might pay for the Jepp Chart unlock.  It would be nice to have the geo referenced plate next to the PFD, although the 796 has been satisfactorily providing that.  The screen resolution on the MFD is not as good as the GTN, but it wasn’t objectionable, and the weather overlays showed up nicely.  Markers show up blinking in their correct colors next to the altitude tape. The unit is very easy on the eyes.

The GTN 750 provides a wealth of information including traffic (correlated active and Passive), stormscope, XM weather and radio, FIS-B weather, audio panel and transponder control, a very acceptable V/Nav calculator, Timers, flight planning interfaced with the Shadin, Approaches and plates, Airways, multiple data or frequency entry methods and on and on.  I found myself using both the knobs and touch depending on turbulence or whim.  I thought I would not like the Home button page, but find I use it more than pressing and holding the button to get to the Map page.  Excellent resolution.  The traffic page it just amazing with ADS-B.  Touch a target and a sector pops up showing all data available on the target.  I’ve seen N numbers and airlines.  And target trend provides information that Active traffic just doesn’t, like whether the traffic is going to intercept you.  ATC was busy giving me traffic and where it was headed in relation to me; not needed, I saw where they were going.  I’ve used the unit on student’s airplanes, but not on my own before.  I really loved my KLN90B, but this is on another level.  The GTN 650 the same without the audio panel and  Charts.  It’s backup to the G500 and 750.

I got the GDL 69A at a big discount from an Avioncis shop in Australia; no XM there.  Bought the install kit from Garmin.  Weather and radio for a little over $2,000.  Love it.  Now I’m paying XM twice, once for the 796 and again for this.  I’d do it again.  It plays really nicely on both the G500 and GTN 750.

The GTS 800 into the GDL88—the best traffic out there displayed perfectly on both GTN’s.  Several questioned my sanity for having both. There is nothing like having both active traffic (no target trend here but traffic anywhere) and correlated ADS-B with target trend for traffic awareness.  The GDL 88 operates in two modes, Airborne and Surface.  Transition occurs at 1500 feet AGL.  On the ground and set to 2 nm the airport surface chart pops up.  If receiving ADS-B you see everything moving on the ground.

I love the GMA 35 interfaced into the GTN 750.  It does so many things I don’t know where to begin.  First it is SIMPLE to operate as opposed to external units including the GMA 350.  3D audio whenever a second radio is enabled and other times I have not used yet.  Music 1 and 2 inputs.  I coupled each of those with the 796 on one and the GDL69A on the other.  Marker outputs to the G500.  Simple direction of all audio to whomever you wish.  Recorder that I control on the left yoke. and Push to Command on a switch on the right yoke.  PTC works amazingly well.  Hold the switch and say, for example, “MIC 2”.  There is a pleasant tone and the MIC and COM switch to 2.  It will command other things too.

I ABSOLUTELY made the right decision for me in choosing the MVP-50 over the JPI 930 engine monitor.  I love it!  From my distance from it in the cockpit, which is close, I’m fine with the display and the additional functions available over the JPI.  The Fuel Management Page was one of the reasons I went for it and I am not disappointed.  Tons of information there that I used to have to calculate by hand.   No more looking under the panel for the tach either.  It's right on one of the pages I check before shutdown.  Each flight’s fuel is tabulated in a field.  Just remember to look at it at the end of the flight because it zeros out on shut down to start again on the next flight.  The MP and RPM gauges could have been more elegantly designed like that of JPI, but the information is there in digital form.  There are lots of possible annunciators and I have a couple of good ones on the main page like a backup gear warning blinking red light.  I have it coming on if the gear is not down by 12” MP.  I called EI about my CHT temperatures being at least 40° less than on the previous JPI 700.  They said to believe theirs.  Same with the TIT.  I find at the same power settings, that I am running less fuel than before.  I love the unit.

Then there is the ESI 2000 backup AI.  It just works.  Placed beside the G500 with the horizons matching is just a great backup.

So there you have it.  I couldn’t be more pleased with the results of this upgrade.  If someone offered me a CJ right now, other than being crazy for doing it, I’d flat out turn them down without giving it a second thought.  No doubt, for me this is a dream panel.

[carusoam]

Incredibly well written post, Don.

New life for aging planes!

Best regards,

-a-

[MooneyBob]

Yes. Nicely done.

[Danb]

Don, Welcome to the world of glass, once you've been flying behind it for awhile it will only get better, I'm glad to hear someone on this forum chime in and mention that Svs is not a waste of money, again after flying behind it for 8 yrs I c/n see flying without it, all the steam gauge lovers once they get a chance to gallop behind glass truly see's the benefit. Have a great time and be safe remember to keep your eyes outside. Very cool....

[Bob_Belville]

Don, I'm pleased for you that the long wait was worth it. You might want to add some new pics to your gallery. Include some in flight shots of those great screens.

[flyboy0681]

Pictures would be nice.

[fantom]

Good report, Don. Is there anything you might do differently now, and how about getting your yokes leathered?

After awhile it may get difficult to instruct the steam gauge masses

[Parker_Woodruff]

Hi Don,

 

I thought a single XM subscription was valid for both a handheld unit and a GDL69 if you had both...I could be wrong, but it might be worth checking on this to save you some cash!

[donkaye]

Hi Don,

 

I thought a single XM subscription was valid for both a handheld unit and a GDL69 if you had both...I could be wrong, but it might be worth checking on this to save you some cash!

Wish that were true, but it is not.

[donkaye]

Good report, Don. Is there anything you might do differently now, and how about getting your yokes leathered?

After awhile it may get difficult to instruct the steam gauge masses

I would do absolutely nothing differently as of the products that are available today.  I will be looking into the new yoke covers.  I need to get it done locally since theres are so many wires going through them that they can't be removed.

[donkaye]

Don, I'm pleased for you that the long wait was worth it. You might want to add some new pics to your gallery. Include some in flight shots of those great screens.

In time I'll do that.

[KSMooniac]

I would do absolutely nothing differently as of the products that are available today.  I will be looking into the new yoke covers.  I need to get it done locally since theres are so many wires going through them that they can't be removed.

Don, I posted in your thread over on beechtalk about another owner's self-made yoke coverings, and they turned out as well as AeroComforts in my opinion, at least from the pics.  He made patterns, cut leather, and stitched the pieces together with the yokes in place.  You might as well try the same, and if you're not a DIY type then I bet you could find a hot rod interior shop and get one of their craftsmen to come to the plane to do the work.  It might end up being a lot cheaper than R&R + AeroComfort costs.

[jlunseth]

Did you get new senders from EI for the tanks?  They have a couple of types, resistive and capacitative, both said to be better than the factory senders and capacitative said to be more costly but truly accurate.  Am thinking about it for the future, maybe later this summer/

[donkaye]

Did you get new senders from EI for the tanks?  They have a couple of types, resistive and capacitative, both said to be better than the factory senders and capacitative said to be more costly but truly accurate.  Am thinking about it for the future, maybe later this summer/

I did not send in my senders or use the more expensive ones.  I kept the Shadin, which is accurate to a tenth of a gallon when started with full tanks.  The K factor on the MVP-50 took a little time to work out, but it is now close to the Shadin when a flight is completed. The quantity will only be guaranteed to be accurate on EMPTY.  So far they are reasonably close.

[Bennett]

Don,

 

Great panel.  I share many of your experiences with the GTN750, GTN650, and AERA 796. I absolutely love TIS-B (in relative mode), and it has been indispensable in both finding aircraft called out by ATC, and for those aircraft that just pop up when VFR. I've managed to avoid what could have been close calls using the GDL-88 with the GTNs. I use the Icarus SAM with the KAP 150 for GPSS steering.  I hate to admit it, but this combination flies a flight plan (as programed into the GTN 750) better than I can. Amazing boxes. A suggestion: While TIS-B displays on both GTN units, I use the GTN 650 primarily to display TIS-B at the six mile range, and switch to 2 miles as soon as I see any potentially dangerous situation. Since I redid my panel about a year before you have, I am using a JPI 830, which is of course, not primary, so I can't clean up my panel as well as you have done. There is always something newer, and better, when setting up these complex projects.  Glad you like the GMA 35. I think it is an amazing audio panel, and I enjoy the 3D aspects, plus the recorder function. If I didn't have so many buttons already on my yoke, I would have considered a yoke switch like yours. I much prefer XM to Nextrad, and I will keep my subscription up for the foreseeable future. And, I like listening to Sirius radio on long flights. Yoke covers without removing the yokes might be difficult if you want quality work. I had Aviation Designs do mine in the aircraft, which was highly expensive, but I like their custom work. I assume you feel that the long wait is well worth it now. 

[MooneyCFII]

Interesting. Your panel sounds similar to where I think mine will be going in a year. Still trying to decide between the Aspen Evolution 2000 and the G-500 or G-600. GPS/Nav/Comm will be either the GTN-750 or GTN-650 depending on available real estate. 

 

I went with the EDM-930. I have not been disappointed. I was going to have to repair or overhaul a lot of old instruments and decided to just punt and put in the EDM-930. I will post separately on the progress with my plane.

[donkaye]

Interesting. Your panel sounds similar to where I think mine will be going in a year. Still trying to decide between the Aspen Evolution 2000 and the G-500 or G-600. GPS/Nav/Comm will be either the GTN-750 or GTN-650 depending on available real estate. 

 

I went with the EDM-930. I have not been disappointed. I was going to have to repair or overhaul a lot of old instruments and decided to just punt and put in the EDM-930. I will post separately on the progress with my plane.

There is nothing wrong with the Aspen units, but if you have the money, I think you would be much happier with the G500.  Same goes for the GTN 750 vs the 650.  A lot more screen for a few thousand dollars more with the GTN 750.

 

There was a time during my 6 month upgrade affair when I never thought I'd ever get the plane back whole.  But the first photo shows the result, thank goodness.

[MooneyCFII]

You have the larger panel than I do. i am dealing with a bit less real-estate than you have. This is going to impact my decisions. 

 

As for Aspen Evolution 2000 vs. G-500, the Aspen has two key advantages: they are cheaper and it is fully redundant with dual AHRS. The latter allows me to dispense with having to have a backup ASI and altimeter. I still need a separate battery-backed AI. 

 

The advantage of the G-500 for me is that Garmin has become the standard and having the G-500 makes my planes more attractive for training. OTOH, if I try to equip all my planes with G-500s that is going to break the bank. Putting an Aspen Evo-1000 in the primary trainer along with the GTN-650 gets me 90% the way there for a great IFR trainer. Equipping the Mooney with the Evo-2000 makes transition from the primary trainer a lot easier.

 

Oh decisions, decisions.

 

But thank you for your posting and thoughtful response. I appreciate it.

[Danb]

Don I really like your back up Ai, I had the jepp chart unlocked and truth be told 95 percent of the time I seem to be looking at the gov't charts on the iPad even though I have Jepps there also, seems like when things get busy I just hit the button on Foreflight. Do you have the Garmin charts available currently if so I wonder the cost to unlock along with the associated subscription cost. Whom ever did your panel did a magnificent job..love the layout looking at the MVP 50 and location of the Ai is nicely throughout

Very nice

[donkaye]

Don I really like your back up Ai, I had the jepp chart unlocked and truth be told 95 percent of the time I seem to be looking at the gov't charts on the iPad even though I have Jepps there also, seems like when things get busy I just hit the button on Foreflight. Do you have the Garmin charts available currently if so I wonder the cost to unlock along with the associated subscription cost. Whom ever did your panel did a magnificent job..love the layout looking at the MVP 50 and location of the Ai is nicely throughout

Very nice

Peter Cazares at J and R Electronics in Livermore did the whole job all by himself with a little help with the antenna installation and racks in the back of the plane.  Even an a former Electrical Engineer I couldn't have confronted doing that job all by myself.  He is an avionics wizard.  We designed the panel together, but he made it work.  I thank Chris Floyd for the idea of where to put the MVP 50.  He put his in the same location in his Ovation, so I saw how it would look beforehand.  It was Peter's idea to make the two horizons on the same level.

[Cruiser]

Don,

 

where's your clock?

[donkaye]

Don,

 

where's your clock?

 

I have so many timers it is ridiculous. A count up and down timer on both the 750 and 650. A timer right in front of me on the MVP 50 in addition to a clock (the MVP 50 is SO much more functional than the JPI 930), and one on the GTX 330ES.  Is that enough?

[Bennett]

Don, is your backup AI the Trilogy EFIS? That is a unit I covet, but the expense drove me off. I settled for an electric Mid-Continent "Life Saver" AI, with battery backup. This replaced my Turn Coordinator, so it is in my scan. I guess i'm just old and set in my ways, but I still like round guages. I had the complete Dynon SkyView units (2) in my DOVA LSA, and they were wonderful instruments, but even after 100 or more hours in that airplane, I was still glancing at the backup ASI and altimeter when landing Loved the horizon for pitch and roll, but hated the side tapes. In level flight I didn't mind the tapes so much, but there is nothing like a needle at the rotational angle you expect to see for instantaneous confirmation. If I were doing the panel again, would I replace the steam gauges with the Garmin 600 two panel setup you have? Maybe. For sure I would use the JPI 930, and get rid of the electronic tach, electronic MP, and the original EGT and OT that I am currently stuck with. The JPI 830 gives me the information I want when coupled with the GTN 750, but the 830 cannot be primary. I didn't notice an AOA indicator in you new panel. I bought the AOA unit that Rick builds, but I haven't installed it yet. Looks like a good unit, but I am waiting to see what else will pop up on the market. The Bendix unit looks nice, but it uses the Alpha probe, and I don't want to install and calibrate that unt. The new Garmin unit appears to use a pitot tube (where we currently have ours?) which would make for a neat installation, but the indicator looks clunky, and I would rather have the indicator mounted in the panel adjacent to the ASI. I'm curious to know your thoughts here.

[MooneyCFII]

 I bought the AOA unit that Rick builds, but I haven't installed it yet. Looks like a good unit, but I am waiting to see what else will pop up on the market. The Bendix unit looks nice, but it uses the Alpha probe, and I don't want to install and calibrate that unt. The new Garmin unit appears to use a pitot tube (where we currently have ours?) which would make for a neat installation, but the indicator looks clunky, and I would rather have the indicator mounted in the panel adjacent to the ASI. I'm curious to know your thoughts here.

I had AoA in my Nanchang CJ6A. I loved it. Whether pulling 5Gs or 0.5Gs is was always dead on. So I am looking for one for the Mooney.

 

I rejected the Bendix/King unit because it is not AoA. It is actually a repackaged Lift Reserve Indicator (LRI) which is "sorta like AOA but not really". I want something that tells me where both stall and best L/D are regardless of loading. The LRI won't do that.

 

Would you tell me more about "Rick's" unit?

[Cruiser]

I have so many timers it is ridiculous. A count up and down timer on both the 750 and 650. A timer right in front of me on the MVP 50 in addition to a clock (the MVP 50 is SO much more functional than the JPI 930), and one on the GTX 330ES.  Is that enough?

 

According to the FAR and your MEL it must be a clock that displays hours, minutes, seconds. Timers don't count (pun intended) but I am sure your GPS clock is acceptable as long as it is displayed and continuously visible during approach.