Finding/installing used engine monitor

[gsxrpilot]

I'd like to find a EDM-700 or UBG-16 to install in the M20C.  It's currently got a EI Digital EGT gauge that I'd replace.

 

First, where is the best place to search for such in instrument in good used condition?  I see an EDM-700 on Barnstormers for $990.

Second, are there any gotchas when it comes to installation?  Or will my A&P be happy to install any use engine monitor I bring to him?

Third, would it make sense to remove the EGT gauge and stick an engine monitor back in the same hole in the panel?

Lastly, if an engine monitor is not required equipment, what does it matter if it's certificated or not?

 

Thanks,

Paul

[mikerocosm]

Here's what i know, which won't answer all your questions, but it's a start:

 

The EDM-700 won't quite fit in the same hole as the stock (at least in my '66E) EGT gauge, as it's a non-standard hole, and a little too small.

 

The engine monitor is not required equipment, but the EGT gauge is, so unless you leave your old EGT gauge in there (as opposed to replacing its function with the [much better] EDM-700), the EDM-700 becomes the required equipment, thus must be approved.

 

That's all I know, relative to your questions, but I will say that an engine monitor will change your life, for the better.

 

mws out

[gsxrpilot]

Thanks Mike,

 

I didn't realise the EGT was required equipment.

 

Paul

[N601RX]

I have a sales brochure from 67 and it says the egt is available as an option.

[gsxrpilot]

I guess it really won't matter as it seems both the EDM-700 and the UBG-16 are approved/certificated.  

 

Now just to find a used one in good working order and to save a few bucks.

 

Thanks,

Paul

[N601RX]

You may be able to get a new one for not much more during Sun-in-Fun. The probes are pretty expensive, so if you get a used one and then have to replace a few of the probes you will be approaching the cost of a new one.

[rob]

Be careful when shopping for used engine monitors; the cost of the probes is pretty expensive. You'll often find the panel mounted part without the probes because someone upgraded and re-used their probes. Also, there may be compatibility issues between the manufacturers. If you have an EI EGT already installed, you can re-use that probe on a UBG but probably not on the JPI unit. 

 

See this link for info: http://www.piperforum.com/f8/i-may-have-screwed-up-4704/

 

As far as the install, it's not hard, just tedious. I'd budget for 25 hours and hope it came to 20 for an install of a new Engine Analyzer when there's nothing in place. 

[KSMooniac]

I guess it really won't matter as it seems both the EDM-700 and the UBG-16 are approved/certificated.  

 

Now just to find a used one in good working order and to save a few bucks.

 

Thanks,

Paul

Not quite... if your mechanic decides that the installed EGT gauge is required, then the -700 and -16 cannot legally replace them as they are not certified as PRIMARY replacement instruments.  They are approved to be installed as advisory only (although everyone uses the data and ignores the old stuff!).  JPI makes a primary version, the EDM-711, and of course the larger and much more expensive -900 and -930.  

 

I agree with Jim's observation, though, that these were likely optional instruments and in that case just remove the old one.  Make sure your IA agrees, though!  

 

Sun n Fun is definitely a good time to be shopping for a new one, though, as usually there are discounts or rebates around that time, and not just for those that attend the show.  Buying probes after the fact is very expensive, unfortunately.

 

FYI, the EDM-700 is a fairly long instrument, so you need to check the space behind the panel.  The newer -730/830 is much shorter, though.

[gsxrpilot]

Thanks for all the replies.  The quality of information on this forum is really valuable, especially for newbies like me.  

 

The airplane is at Don Maxwell's for a pre-buy to happen over the next few days.  Assuming all is well, I intend to extend the pre-buy into an annual.  Am I correct in thinking that the labor to install an engine monitor, replacing the EGT gauge, will be significantly less during the annual than at a different time when it is the only reason to open things up?  Or am I looking at 20 to 25 hours of labor regardless?  If now is the best time because of existing labor during the annual, should I just go ahead and buy the engine monitor from Don?  Or would I come out ahead to wait until Sun&Fun, but the item at a discount and then have it installed later?

 

I should probably just ask Don this question when he calls me with the results of the pre-buy.

 

Thanks for all the info!

 

Paul

[BigTex]

Better check with Don first. He has a pretty strict policy on not installing ANYTHING that wasn't purchased from his shop. In fact you might have to shop around to find someone that will install a used engine monitor.  In fact, a lot of shops will not even install new products that wasn't purchased through them.  So I'd talk to whoever you plan on using before making the purchase (including buying at SNF).

[rob]

The amount of time to install an engine analyzer that's offset by the plane being open due to the annual would be minimal in my opinion. I'm sure that Don has done plenty of these and would be more than happy to give you a quote. His numbers would be the only ones that mattered!

[KSMooniac]

I agree with Rob.  The only labor you'll save by having it done now is cowl removal.    Maybe the glareshield as well, so we're talking about 10 minutes.  What would be significant is if you planned or needed to fly the plane elsewhere to get the monitor installed in the future, in which case that might be a lot of extra expense.

 

If you're at all mechanically inclined, the labor to install these is more tedious than challenging, so you might work with your mechanic at home to it at your convenience.  

 

Definitely get a quote from Maxwell before doing anything further, though.  He likes EI products too, so don't be surprised if you get steered that direction by him.  

[gsxrpilot]

Thanks for all the advice.  I'll check with Don and see what he says.  I'll have the plane hangered at 84R and there is a mechanic on the field.  So that might be an option as well.

 

Thanks,

Paul

[slowflyin]

I've will be removing an JPI EDM 700 (2 1/4, 4C, no ff) and the associated probes from my 1970 F model in the next couple of weeks.  I'm installing a new panel and replacing the primaries.

Installed two years ago.  Works beautifully!  I also have an FS-450 fuel flow and associated sensor.

 

$800 for the EDM and $325 for the FS 450.

 

 

SOLD BOTH

 

 

joe  434 607-3243

[jlunseth]

To find out if the EGT is required equipment, look at the equipment list in the Type Certificate for your aircraft.  The M20 type certificate is online and easy to find, just google it.  Figuring out what is in the required equipment list is a little more complicated, because the list is all references to footnotes, so you have to look up each footnote at the end of the Type Certificate.

 

If an EGT is required for your aircraft and you want to pull the factory EGT, then you would need a replacement that is STC'd as primary for that gauge.  In the case of the JPI, that would be a 711, not a 700, and you would need to check the paperwork on the particular 711 because it can be certified as primary for a number of different things.

 

If the EGT is required equipment in the Type Certificate, you pull it and do not replace it with a gauge that is STC'd as primary, the aircraft no longer complies with the Type Certificate and it is therefore not airworthy.

[slowflyin]

My owners manual (1970) has a minimum equipment list that includes the CHT but not the EGT.

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[gsxrpilot]

I didn't find anything in the Type Certificate for M20C regarding an EGT gauge.  But I did see in the CAR 3 the requirement for a CHT if Cowl flaps are installed.  I know the plane has cowl flaps but no CHT.  Am I missing something here?  This is a 1964 M20C sn 2805.

 

Paul

[slowflyin]

Paul, check the MEL in your owners manual. It should be directly after the limitations section that shows you maximum temps and such. Probably broken down into vfr, ifr, night.....

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[AmigOne]

You can preserve the original EGT, in the C installed in C#4, and make a second hole for the new engine monitor probe.  For the CHT bayonet style JPI sells an adapter so you can "piggyback" the additional CHT probe. Installation and routing of the wiring through the engine takes about 3-4 hours max, then you have to get the 8 wires through the firewall, in my case there was space enough in an existing hole to go through together with other wiring from the engine.  Installing the indicator may vary depending on what is behind the panel but I would guess not more than 4 hours.    

[mikerocosm]

Before this thread devolves into a discussion of whether or not the EGT gauge is a required instrument . . . As the person who suggested that the EGT was a required instrument, I apologize for my error. I spoke too quickly. It is the CHT gauge that is required, and it is not replaced by the EDM-700, but augmented by it.

 

Still, the hole for the original equipment EGT gauge is (or was, on my panel) too small to accommodate any standard 2-1/4" gauge without enlargement, including the EDM-700.