Great day to fly. Not so great outcome. Wing and Rudder damage.

[Marauder]

$30K.....there is no way I can replace my a/c for than amount......but why should I have to if this was not my fault.....i am pretty depressed about this whole thing.....maybe I should of had more but this should be not be an issue......give me back my A/C as is was.....and right now.....with no BS........

It is the way insurance works unfortunately. If the hull is low enough, the plane may be scrapped. There are people who went through this process and can tell you what will happen. Including buying back your scrapped plane to repair It.

The biggest risk you have is if the wing spar is damaged. There are used ailerons around and the damage to the rudder should be repairable. Other than the wrinkled skin, could you tell if the wing ribs underneath were damaged? Were there popped rivets on the wing?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[MB65E]

Sucks! Any detailed pictures if the outer skins? If it's just a rudder and aileron, I'm sure you guys could both work it out with out getting insurance involved. If the outer skin is wrinkled that's another story. Rudder, aileron, outer skin, rear spar rework, and the time to inspect for hidden damage, will add up fast. I'd run everything thru his insurance. If you have documents regarding the replacement cost of the aircraft you might be ahead. Hopefully his insurance company is worthy.... Tailwheel and a Baron, he's already paying a quality company. They should make it right.

Let us all know! Good luck on Monday!

[M20F-1968]

The first and second call I would make Monday would be to the two insurance companies.  The third call would be to Beegles Aircraft in Colorado.  They are a quality shop that does structural repairs and probably better suited than anyone else besides the factory (which as we know is not yet up and running) to assess and repair the damage.  The factory should be able to make a new aileron (and you may be able to get two from them).  Repair of the rudder should be assessed by Beegles.  Beegles is not cheap however but they do excellent work.  The insurance companies like them because they get the work done with excellent results.  They will make arrangements to get your aircraft to them as well.  The insurance will need to pay their costs to get your aircraft to their shop.  Is your rudder a short rudder?  If so, I have one you may be able to use.   Even if the wing has structural damage, Beegles should be able to fix it.  The cost to repair may be prohibitive as weighed against the hull value however.  For what it is worth, I also have a good wing from a 67 F that may come in handy.

 

You can start with their insurance.  They should be responsive to your claim since they will know that if they are not, your insurance will handle the matter and subrogate against them.  The hull value may be an issue.  It certainly will be an issue with your insurance since you have contracted with them for that amount.  You can negotiate to but the aircraft back from them if they do total it.  The hull value may be an issue if you work through the other insurance as well given that they know the matter can go away for them if they pay your insurance the total hull value.  You may have some leverage however given that you use the aircraft for business and there may be business losses you can claim against the other guys insurance, and aircraft rental costs you can claim against the other guy's insurance.  You should push both insurers as much as you need to.  Your has a contractual obligation to cover your damage up to the hull value.  Theirs knows they will ultimately be on the hook for the damage and other losses in the end.

 

Let us know how this plays out.

 

John Breda

[Dave Marten]

Man, bustin' up a Marine's Mooney-not good. Hopefully this guy will do the right thing and get himself quickly out of your crosshairs before your finger gets twitchy.

Being a Marine I'm surprised you couldn't field repair that with some duct tape and empty beer cans!

[N601RX]

If you choose to deal with your insurance company you are limited by the insured value of 30k. If the repairs go above some percentage of that it will be totaled. Any other reimbursement is very limited to non existent.

If you deal with the other persons company he probably has 1m of coverage. You should be able to repair or negotiate a value for your plane based On Vref, Jimmy's calculator or what other comparable planes are selling for. You can also negotiate for all your other losses and expenses, as well as associated expenses with buying a new plane. You can very quickly spend a few thousand traveling to look at new planes and getting a prebuy. Don't forget sales tax, depending on your state this can be large. This option offers a lot more possibilities.

[Buster1]

Really bad news. I'd be honestly crying.

HOW did this happen? Did the plane get away from him? Was he intoxicated? Seriously, how did this occur?

Really sorry to hear about this.

[Seth]

Good luck - so sorry you have to deal with this mess. Please do let us know how the process works out as it will help many of us down the road.

Here's to good health and to keeping your Mooney.

-Seth

[Danb]

Otto. Semper fi

[Danb]

Chris. Was that in the west t's. Dan

[DaV8or]

I have a zero deductible insurance policy.  I just don't want my rates to go up if I contact them. 

 

They won't go up. You must contact your insurance agent and give them all the information you have on the the other guy, most specifically, his insurance. I'm assuming you have all his contact info and his insurance. Actually, just the other plane's N number might be enough to track him down.

 

Your pictures tell the story. The insurance companies will get testimony from you both as to what happened and then they will assign fault. It won't be you. The other guy's insurance will be paying for the repair, not yours. You need to contact your agent ASAP to get the ball rolling. He will be working for you.

 

As to the repair, take detailed photos of the damage and contact LASAR. Send them the photos. They have a guy that is a pilot for them that has a J with no back seat. It's kind of a work truck. I would bet they would have a serviceable aileron that they can send down with a mechanic to get your plane patched enough to get it back to their shop. You might have to help get the ferry permit, I don't know. If the spar is toast, used wings are available, but the cost to swap might be close to the aircraft's value. If it can't be ferried, it can be trucked, there are people who specialize in this and LASAR, or your insurance guy can find them for you.

 

Good luck and keep us posted!

[Marauder]

Chris. Was that in the west t's. Dan

Sure was.

[DaV8or]

Really bad news. I'd be honestly crying.

HOW did this happen? Did the plane get away from him? Was he intoxicated? Seriously, how did this occur?

Really sorry to hear about this.

 

Real men fly taildraggers. Ask any pilot forum.   This is how it happened- The visibility in a taildragger is limited over the nose when taxiing. Conventional gear pilots often need to do S turns to see where they are going. The center of mass is very far forward with relation to the main gear on a taildragger, this is why they are trickier to land and take off. The airplane wants to naturally trade ends and only the pilot's use of the rudder pedals and brakes keep it from doing this. Pilots often use this unbalance to advantage when taxiing to turn the airplane around. The taildragger will rapidly spin on a dime by locking one brake. 

 

This guy no doubt was doing as so many pilots I see and taxiing way too fast. He couldn't see the parked Mooney over the nose very well because, well, it's a real man's plane with it's nose in the air. His wing tip hit the rudder and the plane spun around in a split second just as though he had stomped on the right brake pedal. Before the pilot could do anything about it, he was eating metal.

 

You don't have to be drunk to do this, just careless, complacent and in a hurry.

[Mooneymite]

Not a big problem, That'll buff right out. 

 

Nah...too much surface roughness to buff that out.  Try duct tape.   

[Mooneymite]

$30K.....there is no way I can replace my a/c for than amount......but why should I have to if this was not my fault.....i am pretty depressed about this whole thing.....maybe I should of had more but this should be not be an issue......give me back my A/C as is was.....and right now.....with no BS........

 

Since the cost of repairs will be borne by the "other guy's" insurance, what you have your hull insured for shouldn't be a factor.

 

Simple fact: HE damaged your airplane; HE has to make you whole....his insurance may help, but HE is still on the hook until you accept the settlement.

 

His insurance company may tell you your aircraft is totaled and try to give you $30,000, but the bottom line is HE has to make you whole again.  If his insurance company tries to total out your airplane, make sure that it covers the total cost of an equal replacement.....what you have your hull value at is of no concern except that it is a subtle statement of what you thought the airplane was worth the day you bought your insurance policy.

 

Don't sign ANYTHING until you are completely satisfied and made whole.

[Schinderhannes]

I am very sorry to hear about your bird. This hits close to home, as I go to L08 for fuel as well. The FBO in Palm Springs gives tenants a break on the $8 avgas price, but the difference compared to L08 is still significant.

If I you need a ride from TNP to L08 in the future, let me know and I would be more than happy to help.  

[rdav]

Since the cost of repairs will be borne by the "other guy's" insurance, what you have your hull insured for shouldn't be a factor.

 

Simple fact: HE damaged your airplane; HE has to make you whole....his insurance may help, but HE is still on the hook until you accept the settlement.

 

His insurance company may tell you your aircraft is totaled and try to give you $30,000, but the bottom line is HE has to make you whole again.  If his insurance company tries to total out your airplane, make sure that it covers the total cost of an equal replacement.....what you have your hull value at is of no concern except that it is a subtle statement of what you thought the airplane was worth the day you bought your insurance policy.

 

Don't sign ANYTHING until you are completely satisfied and made whole.

Totally agree with this assessment. The $30k hull coverage on your insurance policy should only apply to the portion of damage that YOU are responsible for, or if there was no other person responsible. The taxiing pilot is on the hook to make things right in this case, since he was the one that caused the damage. Even if your insurance makes a pay out to you to get things settled quickly, the cost of that should be borne by the other pilot.

I would think that the other pilot would rely on his liability coverage to repair your plane, which should be more than enough. If he had no liability coverage, then he would have to pay out of his own pocket. If that doesn't cover it, you would be within your rights to sue him for the difference.

I hope you're back in the air soon!

[Alan Fox]

Bottom line , If you only have 30 K of insurance and it hit the rear spar it is going to be totaled out , it will total out at 70% of the insured value , The wing , labor , and paint work will be over 20 K ... lets hope it didn't go that far , if the spar is OK I have an aileron from a 63 C you can have for 450.00  if it will fit.....Good luck....  Also even if the other owners insurance covers it , it will be valued at appraised value , which may be more or less than 30K and if they total it you get a check and they get the plane.....which will go out for bid , and probably end up with Wentworth , or Beegles.....

[DonMuncy]

From what I'm seeing, you need to deal with the other guy's insurance. Yours would almost certainly total it, pay you the $30,000 and take the salvage. The other insurance may be more difficult to deal with, but are not limited to your insured stated value. They will probably argue with you about the cost of repair and/or total value, but will ultimately pay you the reasonable value.

Be aware they are likely not under an obligation to pay the reasonable cost of repair if it exceeds the total value of the plane.

You probably need to start documenting your plane's value as well as the cost of repair.

It is a shame, but this is not likely to be very fast, and you will have to deal with a lot of headache before it is over.

You have my sympathy.

[DaV8or]

Don't give up hope yet. Your plane will likely fly again and you'll get to keep it. We here are all rushing to the worst case scenario straight away. Your spar may be just fine, in which case it's just sheet metal work. Even if the spar is damaged, there may be a repair allowable without removing the wing. Take lots of pictures and tomorrow morning call LASAR right away. Talk to Paul if you can. If not then Michael. Send them the pictures. They've seen it and repaired it all. Tomorrow you will know if you are looking a repair vs. total. There is nothing I have seen from the pictures you posted that says abandon all hope.

[Alan Fox]

Dave in general any time a skin has to be replaced , the wing has to be removed and jigged to be done correctly ...... Big money......

[jamesm]

Wow!!!!  Sorry to hear. 

My experience with a well known aviation insurance company  was  quite easy and painless for a bone headed incident and that was one  totally my fault and I'm too embarrassed published on the internet  and I still lament over it. plus It's long story. Like other  users have  posted ...If memory serves me correctly  It is a certain percentage of the hull coverage before the insurance company determines the airplane is salvageable or totaled.  What the Insurance  had me do is  had send them  a copy of my current pilot's license , last BFR, Medical, (since you weren't moving I suspect won't ask you). I had to provided the insurance a  copy  of the Airplane's last annual from each log book (Airframe,Engine,Propeller). There was some  liability  paper work that my passengers had to fill out and statement from me describing  what happened.  Then I had to send photo's of the damage and make a list of the damage and cost items and hours to repair. I think the list (in my particular case)  was because  I didn't use  Insurance adjuster (I am not sure that aduster is the correct term, but in other words nobody from insurance came out to look at the plane before or after the repair).  The insurance company allowed me be the overseer of the repair. I did some of the work and sub out other parts of the repair. I was quite slow in repairing  of the damage and did  some other work while the airplane unrelated  to my incident which took me over 2 plus years.

 Hope this helps and hope you get back in the air in your M20C .

 

James '67M20C

[Shadrach]

Bottom line , If you only have 30 K of insurance and it hit the rear spar it is going to be totaled out , it will total out at 70% of the insured value , The wing , labor , and paint work will be over 20 K ... lets hope it didn't go that far , if the spar is OK I have an aileron from a 63 C you can have for 450.00 if it will fit.....Good luck.... Also even if the other owners insurance covers it , it will be valued at appraised value , which may be more or less than 30K and if they total it you get a check and they get the plane.....which will go out for bid , and probably end up with Wentworth , or Beegles.....

Explain to me why the hull value he has insured his plane for has anything to do with this? This is a liability claim against the other pilots insurance. It does not matter if his plane was sitting there uninsured, the at fault pilots insurance company either repairs the plane or provides fair market value, both of which are negotiable... His hull insurance has jack shit to do with this; what if he was only carrying liability?...does that make the value of the plane $0.00?

[bonal]

I agree, it does not matter what you provide as your hull value. In this case the at fault insurance provider will evaluate repair estimates compared to the market value of your aircraft. I'm not sure at what percentage point they will want to call it a total loss at witch time they will pay the amount due and keep your C. One important thing it's up to you to decide what shop does the estimate and repairs. I would also agree to call Paul or Mike at LASAR in the 4years I have been parked in front of their shop I have seen them do amazing things to damaged Mooney's

Best of luck to you I can only imagine how upset you must be.

[Guest]

I seriously doubt that this plane will be a write off. Typically that consideration is made when damage reaches 75% of insured value, but even at that they will go to full value less deductable.

Take a deep breath and call your broker in the morning.

Clarence

[Alan Fox]

If you read my quote I mentioned "Appraised value"   This will be the benchmark the company uses to either repair , or purchase the damaged aircraft.....Assuming that the other plane even has insurance......