jetdriven Posted October 21, 2013 Report Posted October 21, 2013 We are having a discussion with Lycoming aircraft engines about the "proper" amount of silicon, iron, and aluminum in an oil sample. Any of you that have oil analysis results can you please forward to my email? Please include any relevant details as you remember such as days it sits between flights, average flight length, and whether you use ram air or fly off grass. Also if you have roller lifters, please advise. Ill fill in the details later, but I need hard data for now. And quickly. Thanks Byron Bdr737@gmail.com Quote
mike_elliott Posted October 22, 2013 Report Posted October 22, 2013 We are having a discussion with Lycoming aircraft engines about the "proper" amount of silicon, iron, and aluminum in an oil sample. Any of you that have oil analysis results can you please forward to my email? Please include any relevant details as you remember such as days it sits between flights, average flight length, and whether you use ram air or fly off grass. Also if you have roller lifters, please advise. Ill fill in the details later, but I need hard data for now. And quickly. Thanks Byron Bdr737@gmail.com  Oh, this doesn't sound good, Byron. The new engine making extra elements in the oil? You mention Iron, That means lifters and rollers in your case. Has the silicone suddenly increased or has it been consistently "out of bounds" by your standards? This could cause the extra AL you might be reporting. I hope it all turns out well for you. Lyc doesn't need another black eye, and you don't need the issue. Quote
Bob_Belville Posted October 22, 2013 Report Posted October 22, 2013 sent you a couple of samples Quote
N33GG Posted October 22, 2013 Report Posted October 22, 2013 I understand the theory of parametric analysis and differential equations. Convolution integrals and wave equations are fine. Theory of special and general relativity, check. We can even discuss tensor math and matrix operations. But operating off of grass as it relates to engine wear? I might need help here... Doesn't sound good. If you have to ask the question, you probably don't want to know the answer. Sorry! Good luck. Quote
carusoam Posted October 22, 2013 Report Posted October 22, 2013 Silicon comes from dirt... Dirt comes from unpaved runways... Avoid ingesting silicon by avoiding unpaved runways. Aka Mooney theory of runway relativity... This probably has nothing to do with Byron's challenge, but it is related to oil analysis. Best regards, -a- Quote
Bob_Belville Posted October 22, 2013 Report Posted October 22, 2013 Silicon comes from dirt... Dirt comes from unpaved runways... Avoid ingesting silicon by avoiding unpaved runways. Aka Mooney theory of runway relativity... This probably has nothing to do with Byron's challenge, but it is related to oil analysis. Best regards, -a- Do they scrub the runways, taxiways, and ramps in Jersey? I suspect in Byron's Texas there's plenty of dust around with the wind a constant factor. Think dust storm. OTOH, a healthy grass strip around here in verdant Carolina with plenty of clay in the soil might stain your tires but should not throw much silica at your air filter. Quote
carusoam Posted October 22, 2013 Report Posted October 22, 2013 Bob, It's all relative... Silicon getting past the air filter is awfully tiny or the filter isn't working that well. I would expect parking outside, as my C did, it would be exposed to a lot of dirt and dust. Being indoors, not so much. Either way, it is not a clean room environment. But how does it get in through the vent anyway... Go Red Sox! -a- 1 Quote
OR75 Posted October 22, 2013 Report Posted October 22, 2013 other source of silicon in a lubricant is defoamer however, that should be only a few ppm Quote
clh Posted October 22, 2013 Report Posted October 22, 2013 Check your email. Â You pretty much know my situation...... Â craig Quote
Shadrach Posted October 22, 2013 Report Posted October 22, 2013 New engines tend to show high Si contents for a while because it is used in many of the sealants. The elements you're asking about could point to top end wear ( I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't already know). I'll dig up a few of my black stone emails, I even have one from shortly after we IRANd the engine. Stand by... Quote
Shadrach Posted October 22, 2013 Report Posted October 22, 2013 2 emails sent, 4 reports. 1 pre-IRAN report and 3 post IRAN reports. Keep us posted! Quote
chrisk Posted October 22, 2013 Report Posted October 22, 2013 Silicon comes from dirt... Dirt comes from unpaved runways... Avoid ingesting silicon by avoiding unpaved runways. Aka Mooney theory of runway relativity... This probably has nothing to do with Byron's challenge, but it is related to oil analysis. Best regards, -a- There certainly was a period this summer in Texas where there was a good amount of airborne dust from Africa.  Enough to make it hazy. I did wonder if this would effect the engines on planes and possibly show in oil analysis. Quote
Shadrach Posted October 22, 2013 Report Posted October 22, 2013 There certainly was a period this summer in Texas where there was a good amount of airborne dust from Africa.  Enough to make it hazy. I did wonder if this would effect the engines on planes and possibly show in oil analysis. Small particulate is what gets past the rings if it's bigger than the ring to cyl tolerence it goes out the exhaust. The trouble is stuff small enough to get past the rings but larger than other tolerances in the engine. Quote
N33GG Posted October 22, 2013 Report Posted October 22, 2013 I have often wondered about people flying regularly out in west Texas, such as Lubbock. The dust storms can be unbelievable, and sand gets in everything. If I lived out there, I would be very concerned about any issues with my filters. Quote
M016576 Posted October 22, 2013 Report Posted October 22, 2013 I'm curious to know what's going on with that new motor... And if I should've worried about mine, too... Whatever it is, at least you've got a lycoming reman, Byron: they should stand by it! Quote
jetdriven Posted October 22, 2013 Author Report Posted October 22, 2013 Thanks to all of your for the data. No fewer than 12 pilots responded with information, about 5 or 6 within couple hours. Thats the power of Mooneyspace. Its amazing.  Silicon is on the high end of average to average, however, the wear metals, to me at least, are shockingly high. About 5 times average, after reviewing others' information.  We think there is something going on inside the engine, Lycoming is resolute that the silicon levels are commensurate with wear values such as this, and sitting 3-4 days causes cylinder rust which flags for iron.  Take a look and compare.  Keep sending in info if you wish, I will organize it all to determine real baseline values we can all compare it to. I'll keep your personal data private, of course.  More later.  N201EQ-090313clean.pdf Quote
N33GG Posted October 22, 2013 Report Posted October 22, 2013 I will be very interested to see how this progresses. Please keep us posted, and... Good luck! Quote
Cruiser Posted October 22, 2013 Report Posted October 22, 2013 Let your plane sit for "3 - 4 days" and borescope the cylinders for rust. Take pictures to show the lack of rust in there. Â IF you do have rusting cylinders at 3 to 4 days. I would be using an air dehydrator immediately and maybe get an oil that has a little better staying power .......... Â Quote
BigTex Posted October 22, 2013 Report Posted October 22, 2013 You might want to talk to Mike Busch. The whole reason he started Savvy Analysis is to collect data for this exact reason. Might be worth a call. 2 Quote
Bob - S50 Posted October 25, 2013 Report Posted October 25, 2013 Another one headed your way. Â Bob Quote
jetdriven Posted November 2, 2013 Author Report Posted November 2, 2013 incredible feedback. You can keep sending results please include as many details about how you let your engine sit, fly off grass, leaking ram air valve etc. Im going to compile the data. BTW, nobody yet had a 210 PPM / 50 hours result like our 250 hour factory lycoming engine. Quote
Awful_Charlie Posted November 2, 2013 Report Posted November 2, 2013 some TSIO540AF1B data gone to you e-mail  Ben Quote
carusoam Posted November 2, 2013 Report Posted November 2, 2013 Byron, Is there a way to do a re-test? As if the sample got adulterated some how.... Re-running the test would make a good idea. Unfortunately a new oil sample for the test may not be available. At least not for another 50 engine hours. Best regards, -a- Quote
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