New guy intro

[Raygun15E]

Hi everyone, new guy here. I joined last summer and I've been reading as much as I can about GA flying and Mooney's. Lots of great info here.

I'm in the AF, have approx 1800hrs in fast movers, and I'm currently a T-38C IP here in TX. My FAA ratings are SE Land, Instrument, Commercial, ME Land centerline thrust restricted (need to get rid of that!). Unfortunately, I have very little GA time. I finally took my parents and one of my sisters up for a sightseeing flight in a C-172 when I went home to upstate NY last summer. It was the 1st time I'd flown a GA aircraft since I tried to give them a flight on a low ceiling, windy day back in Dec '01!

 

I looked at getting an airplane back in 2011, but it wasn't the right time to do so. Since I've moved to west TX, I've been looking into it more and have decided a Mooney would best fit my needs/mission. A friend of mine has a M20F TN and he took me up on a quick hop to get fuel and bring the plane back to his home field after some mx. I liked the flight and it confirmed a Mooney would probably be the best fit for my needs. Now I just need to figure out all the ins and outs of a/c ownership. I've read "Buying and Owning your own Airplane", now I just need to put that info to work.

 

I'm looking forward to continue learning from you guys and participating in a great forum.

 

-Chris

[David Mazer]

Welcome to MooneySpace. There are plenty of guys that can help you here but they are all going to start with two questions.  What is your mission and what is your budget.

[Raygun15E]

Good questions,

 

1) Mission: Cross Country flying with IFR capability. Not likely to make the long trip home to NY often, but 500-650nm hops would probably make up at least 1/2 my personal flying.

 

2) Budget: Best for the least. Right now Looking in the $50-$65K range. Basically a decent F or older J. I need the leg room!

Edited October 13, 2013 by Raygun15E

[Hank]

The most bang for the buck is a C model. I get 140 knots at ~9gph, but back seat leg room is tight. My wife cubes out the plane before hitting gross; I've got 670 lbs with full fuel, good for over 5 hours. My longest leg is 4.4, and I landed nervously with 12 gallons left.

[RocketAviator]

Welcome Raygun15E, where in TX are you located?  I am in El Paso.  Thank you for your service to our country, good luck with your search.

[Raygun15E]

Thanks Hank,

 

The C model does sound like a great deal. I'm looking to get the most I can afford right now. I also like fuel injection and the extra room the F model or older Js provide. From what I've read, your C model is one heck of an airplane though! I know what you mean about landing nervously with 'low' fuel. The T-38 might be fast, but she doesn't fly for long! Those 3900# of fuel don't last long and normal recovery fuel of 800# doesn't leave a whole lot of room for error.

[Raygun15E]

right on the border at Laughlin.

 

Thank you, I and everyone in the service appreciate the thanks!

[Bob_Belville]

Welcome Chris,

 

My E would have a little more performance than Hank's C with 200 HP fuel injected Lycoming. E interior is the same as C. Gross is the same and useful load will be similar.

 

I flight plan @ 155K. If your typical mission is usually 1 or 2 souls it is hard to beat these vintage birds in your price range. And I would hope they handle more like what you're used to than a C172!

 

You should be able to find an IFR E (maybe an F with more interior room, higher gross and bigger tanks) for your budget. Something with the latest avionics will cost more but it's still a buyers market if you find a motivated seller.

[Raygun15E]

Yes, family is something I'd like in the future and I don't plan on buying a plane just to need a larger one in 2-3 years. I'd like to buy one and keep it for a long time. I do the same with autos if I can. This is why I'm thinking a mid-body is the best size for me and my needs (including near future).

 

As far as avionics go, I'd really like to have IFR GPS for all those rnav gps approaches becoming available. I'm kind of spoiled in the T-38C with the glass cockpit and EGI, but I'm ok with not having a G1000 or Aspen 1000! I'm thinking the Garmin 430W is a reasonable want in a M20F or M20J, but it may make it so I can only afford a F with one already installed. It looks like installing one after the fact is expensive! ($10k-$12k).

 

Thanks for all the replies.

[Mooneymite]

Welcome!

 

Always nice to hear from folks just getting Mooney lust!

 

One piece of advice I'd offer:  Buy the plane you want.  Do not buy something with plans to up-grade it.  Up-grades are very expensive and you'll only get a percentage back when you sell.

 

The perfect airplane for you is out there....be patient and wait for it.

 

In my opinion, it's hard to go wrong with a Mooney, so you're on the right track!

[bnicolette]

Welcome to the Mooney information reserve Chris!  As you've already found out there is a huge amount of knowledge here and the search function can be your best friend here on the board.  If you don't see what you're looking for..........ask!  

 

Thank you for your service!!

 

Blue skies!

 

Brett

[Hector]

Sounds like the M20F gives you the best chance at a mid body in the price range you are looking at. Be patient and the right plane will come along.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[aviatoreb]

Hi everyone, new guy here. I joined last summer and I've been reading as much as I can about GA flying and Mooney's. Lots of great info here.

I'm in the AF, have approx 1800hrs in fast movers, and I'm currently a T-38C IP here in TX. My FAA ratings are SE Land, Instrument, Commercial, ME Land centerline thrust restricted (need to get rid of that!). Unfortunately, I have very little GA time. I finally took my parents and one of my sisters up for a sightseeing flight in a C-172 when I went home to upstate NY last summer. It was the 1st time I'd flown a GA aircraft since I tried to give them a flight on a low ceiling, windy day back in Dec '01!

 

I looked at getting an airplane back in 2011, but it wasn't the right time to do so. Since I've moved to west TX, I've been looking into it more and have decided a Mooney would best fit my needs/mission. A friend of mine has a M20F TN and he took me up on a quick hop to get fuel and bring the plane back to his home field after some mx. I liked the flight and it confirmed a Mooney would probably be the best fit for my needs. Now I just need to figure out all the ins and outs of a/c ownership. I've read "Buying and Owning your own Airplane", now I just need to put that info to work.

 

I'm looking forward to continue learning from you guys and participating in a great forum.

 

-Chris

 

Upstate NY?  Are you from near where I live? KPTD?

[Cabanaboy]

Check out the future of Mooney. This rocks!

http://www.mooneyworldwide.com

 

[rainman]

Raygun, I'm in San Antonio. Let me know if/how I can help. I recommend you go to the Mooneyland website and get the two Richard Zephro "Zef" e-books. One is on how to shop for GA aircraft, and the other is on "those Mooney Aircraft". I found them very useful when it came time to buy my plane. Zef has passed away but a dedicate crew are keeping things going. Ray

[chrisk]

Welcome!   It sounds like you want some range in the plane.  I'd look at the F since it has larger tanks than the standard C or E.  There are however some C and E models with bladders that can be upgraded to larger tanks.

 

As others have said.  Find a plane with the avionics that you can live with.   I suspect finding a plane with an approach certified GPS may be the deciding factor vs model.

[Raygun15E]

I definitely don't want to spend the time and money on any major upgrades like large avionics or airframe mods.

 

It does look like a heavily modded F with some decent avionics is right up my alley as far as what I want. Yes, I do have that Mooney lust now!

I'm definitely beating up the search function on the forum and the internet. I will ask if I can't find the answer, lots of mooney brains to pick.

 

Upstate NY, grew up right between KFZY and KSYR. I've been up towards KPTD, but have never stopped by. I think I checked out Clarkson when I was in HS, but ended up going to a small school in the foothills of the Rockies...

 

Rainman, thanks for the offer and info on Zef's books.  I just might have to take you up on that offer!

[Seth]

Welcome to MooneySpace Raygun.

 

So you are aware, the C and E are the short body, with the F and J being the medium body.  Stay away from the G (C's engine with F's body - slowest of all Mooney's).  The great aspect though is that for the pilot and front passenger, there is very little difference in the C, E, F, and early J's - the front seats have the same legroom.  The stretch to mid length in the F and J added space to the backseat.  So the pilot will only see a handling difference.

 

if you can swing it, go with the E or F.  There are a lot of amazing C's out there, but in Texas on hot days during summer months, you're going to want the extra 20 horsepower the fuel injected engine gives you. 

 

The F does what the J does, for less money, and is about 10 knots slower.  I used to own an F because I wanted the backseat space.  I figured I would own the airplane for between 4-10 years before I upgraded.  Three years later, I sold the F and purcahsed my Mooney Missile, which is Amazing (modified J with a larger engine) but starting out it would have been too much plane for the first 100 hours. 

 

If you can swing an early J, you may never buy another airplane.  However, again, a good F has great value to it.  I looked at E's and F's originally, and of the six I looked at, I went with the F.  You get better useful load, even though the E is a few knots quicker (same engine, short thus lighter body).  The E is the performance champ, the F has some of the best useful loads in the entire fleet. 

 

The C is perhaps the best bang for the buck in general avaiation.

 

You can usually get both an E, F, and J to run lean of peak, but of course, not always as every engine is different. 

 

Figure out your price range, then go shopping - undersetand that you are going to end up spending 10% of your purchase price in the first year on maintenance you didn't see coming.

 

-Seth

[mooneygirl]

Welcome to the Mooney family.  My Dad had a C for nearly 30 years.  I have had an E for 10.  Hubby had an F for 25 years and now has the Ovation.  I really agree with what Seth had to say.  I would add, join MAPA http://mooneypilots.com/  They had free classified ads so you can post what you are looking for and see what other owners are selling. Also there will be a big party April10-12 at Kerrville for the MAPA Homecoming. 

 

If you haven't had a ton of Mooney time then hire a Mooney-specific instructor and get 20 hours or so.  If you would like to do some volunteer displaying, check out our website http://www.MooneyAmbassadors.com

 

 

 

 

 

[Raygun15E]

Based on everyone's input and my research on Mooney's I've narrowed it down to an F or early J. Like Seth said, you can get a lot for your money with an F, 90% of a J performance and some of the best useful loads out there. One reason my budget is what it is, is I am doing my best to account for that 10% spent on misc items during the 1st yr of ownership.

So what does everyone think of a M20F with Rajay TN? It looks like it provides additional options on top of the standard NA models. I'm assuming it really doesn't add much to the resale value, but is a bonus for anyone who buys it. Obviously it has more value to someone based in the Rockies vs. somone based on the East Coast.

Nope, not a ton of Mooney time. A friend has one and is willing to show me a few things, so that will help some, but not all.

[Hector]

More complexity, more maintenance, more cost. If you need it, great! But IMHO it would not be in my list unless my mission really requires it.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[chrisk]

.

So what does everyone think of a M20F with Rajay TN? It looks like it provides additional options on top of the standard NA models.

I've heard mixed reviews.

[fantom]

Another warm welcome to MooneySpace, Raygun.

 

Making me really feel old imaging a glass panel in a T-38. Oh, well.

 

20 hours of Mooney instruction for a T-38 IP may be just a bit pessimistic  , but the advise you're getting here is excellent. An M20F with an old Rajay TN may be inviting more problems than you want.

 

I went through Williams, and yes, before anyone Jim chimes in, it was a while ago.

[fantom]

Sorry. Even with your disclaimer, I couldn't resist.

 

 

You're just jealous since your daddy, sitting in one seat or another, probably fueled me up.

[Raygun15E]

Yes, the T-38 is a lot different than it was. I flew the T-38A in UPT, flew IFF in the T-38C and now instructing in the C. You can see the differences in the pics below.

 

As far as the Rajay goes, I don't plan on going out of my way to find one, but probably won't dismiss a plane if it has one. I've heard mixed reviews as well on the turbo.

 

Willy was a great location, too bad it was shut down before I had a chance to go there.