Leaderboard

You'd spend more renting a complex plane to gain RG hours than you would just paying the higher premium for the first year. We can get you covered in a Mooney as a brand new private pilot with one or two quality insurance companies.

Just as an aside note- The Capt of that Valuet was a very close friend of mine. I gave her eulogy. She was a good pilot an a great person to know. Just one of several friends that are no longer here because of various accidents in this game we call "flying" It is the main reason why I sometimes become pedantic in my postings trying to stress safety and following the rules in aviation. It saves lives! Sorry for the drift

The only time an ovation is “faster” than an acclaim would be on takeoff if the ovation has the 310hp stc. The acclaim is as fast or faster than the ovation at all altitudes and all configurations other than takeoff. At least that has been my experience with owning two ovations, flying eight or so others, and owning seven acclaims and flying twelve of those. I think what may skew some people’s understandings of this is the appointments. if you have an acclaim with tks and an ovation with neither AC or tks, the ovation may be faster below 8k. But if they are identically appointed the acclaim is still as fast or faster at any time. On my average mission the acclaim is about 30-45min faster and uses about 5-10% more fuel. That is the main difference. The difference to maintain an acclaim vs an ovation is a rounding error. Insurance may be a bit more but once you get good experience, even that isn’t much different.

Flying in a Mooney will ruin your 172, 180, Arrow experience. At least it did for me. I would wait and get your IFR in your Mooney should you choose to pursue it. I am still VFR after almost 1000 hours of primarily 2 to 2.5 hour flights in Midwest. I have not once regretted NOT being a "better" pilot with attaining an instrument rating. Have fun. Fly safe.

The FAA changed in 1996 from the Valujet crash, up until that time their mandate from Congress was to PROMOTE and regulate aviation, after that crash they convinced Congress that promoting aviation got in the way of them regulating it, Congress removed promote and the whole culture began to change, so since then it’s OK to strangle businesses.

It just might could trickle down IF a certain Billionaire gets the job that he says he’s prepared to do. For what it’s worth it wouldn’t be the first time, Ronald Reagan commissioned a waste fraud and abuse study in 84 by a private businessman, and saved a whole bunch of money. This is NOT meant to be a political post in any manner, but just perhaps the FAA in particular might just get a mandate to back off and concentrate on Airliners and airliner manufacturers etc. This isn’t some nut job blogger, it the Wall Street Journal.

I understand your view and don't disagree about the necessity of an instrument rating. Unfortunately I had a not so great experience with my flight school and ultimately I think having my own plane and an independent CFI is a better route given my options.

Went on an hour flight to test the seal. Happy to report an amazing difference in noise level, no more "hissing". What I did during the install was to glue it in place, shut the door (go out through the baggage door) and inflate it a bit to move around between the frame of the plan and door based on the pressure of the air. It seems that it paid off since I didn't need to realign it again. Very happy with the product! Thanks @tomgo2

Ok first off get that extended tank full fuel load out of your mind. Just because you can carry full fuel doesn’t mean you have to. Besides your girlfriend unless she likes peeing in a coffee can , is not going to last much longer than 4 hours before she or you are going to need a restroom break so just get gas at the same time. I have extended tanks and can fly for 10 hours. Yet the longest i have flown at one time is 5 hours. Point being extended tanks would not be the deciding factor. There is a speed chart on mooneyspace that shows the different models all shown together so you can compare. Short summary ovation faster than all but the acclaim S up to 8k then the turbo charged models start beating the ovation. If you are not going above 8k stay with the ovation as you go higher the acclaim will be faster the higher you go. Everything is a compromise so you need to choose whats most important to you. Speed, range, or price.

Worked in heavy industry (Engineering) for 50 years. When you make a statement that suggests something is idiot resistant, along comes a bigger idiot.

I'm with @mike_elliott here. I've had my Ovation (originally Kerrville's first O2, now STC'd to an O3) ~2.5 years and 350+ hours now, and the only time I fly it over 11k is to top weather/bumps. It has a really great sweet spot flying WOT & LOP from 9-11k. This was WOT at 11k last year turning either 2500 or 2550 RPM (I can't recall). 182KTAS on 11.9GPH at about 50 LOP.

I’d work on getting your instrument rating, by the time you complete that you should be insurable.

Hello - I'm new here and looking forward to connecting with fellow Mooney enthusiasts! I passed my Private checkride a couple days ago and am considering an M20F as a first plane. I have about 100 hours so was thinking of joining a local 172 club to build some hours prior to making the leap to a complex aircraft. What are the typical insurance requirements for a low time pilot to get insured on a M20F? Does my plan sound like a good idea?

Ded reckoning is your friend. Or try pilotage….

I didn’t. I used some tape to just hold it in place until I could quickly close the door and inflate it a bit to make sure it “moved” as in fill the gap between the airplane frame and door frame. The silicone glue that came with the kit doesn’t really hold the seal in place like superglue, you can move the seal for probably good 1/2 hour or more before the silicone cures.

Did another flight today in the pattern. Post flight check was great. I only see the residual oil left so cleaned it up. I’ll probably have to do this a bit more as it was really a mess before the fix. I’ll fly it one more time in the pattern then change the oil again. As of now, running great and I’m slowly getting the oil leaks taken care of… -Don

Went to the Safford Air Show in Safford, AZ, yesterday. They parked the fly-in attendees between two taxiways. This is the F4F Wildcat leaving after the show was over. It's pretty easy to spot the Mooney in the crowd.

I have the Vivity Toric multi-focal in both eyes. First eye done a year ago and second one done just this September. As a pilot and engineer with high expectations, I couldn't be happier with the choice. I only use reading glasses for extended reading. I do not need reading glasses for incidental use of my phone or activity such as reading a restaurant menu. I have no halo effect at night. I see better now than ever before.

The absence of an IR doesn’t make anyone a “bad” pilot. It’s unfortunate that you interpreted it that way, because there was no malice intended. But it doesn’t change the fact, that the experience one gets during the training, would make any pilot better. I know I will always have places I could improve, and would hope we all feel that way.

While difficult, it is possible. Tower might say "you're number 3 behind a King Air and a Citation" and ask for an extended downwind, so you think "I'll wait to drop the gear." Then you get another traffic alert from tower, and after an intense search of the sky you report that you don't see the Citation, they ask you to do a 270. Next thing you know, you're slow and the gear are still up. Luckily, but for the grace of God, I did notice at the 500 ft call out that my gear were still up.

10% of tube wall thickness

I'd be looking more into the vibration that concerns you so much. On my last plane, I had a strange vibration that was minor but still noticeable. I had the prop balanced and it did little to resolve the issue. I saw the readings on the before and after (though I do not remember the numbers) and although slight, it was OOB. Are you sure it is the propeller? Have you had an IA check the operation? I would exhaust other potential causes before plunking down a chunk of change on a new prop. If you are sure it isn't anything else, you have a good used prop already - have it overhauled and rebalanced. You might find (if this is the issue) that an overhaul fixed the trouble and at considerably less cost than another used one.

I'm your huckleberry I've been VERY happy with my F and see no reason to switch to a J. I really don't see it as much of an upgrade and consider you ARE going to inherit issues; just a question of how much they are going to cost to address! Not to mention the time, money, and hassle to sell your F and find and buy a J. Spend on the one you're with and be happy!

Thanks everyone. Its a Long Eze and I think I'm just going to pass on it as the thought of a major overhaul in the near future seems very likely and very expensive no doubt.

As far as I know a type design isn’t protected. There are no parts that I’m aware of that a PMA manufacturer can’t produce and sell. In the past when one manufacturer gets ridiculous in pricing a PMA manufacturer sees the potential profit and starts producing the part, but also when a manufacturer loses interest in producing parts for old airplanes, that’s Wag Aero and Univair’s business model. They didn’t need to get permission from the manufacturers. Also junk yards start being searched for these ridiculous priced parts. The OEM ends up selling none and their price gouging backfires. I’ve seen it personally, it’s one of the first thing a failing manufacturer resorts to to increase cash flow. I’m not aware of any part that isn’t available for my little C-140 for instance. I’m not counting major assemblies like wings or a fuselage, just parts. I’m sure some aren’t available but I’ve not experienced it myself. After I got mine I disassembled and inspected it and I had to replace both front and rear main spar carry throughs and the vertical fin spar from corrosion, all three were shipped as they were in stock and as I don’t remember the cost it wasn’t stupid. I think I got them from Univair, but that’s been almost 20 years ago. I’ve just assumed neither produces Mooney parts out of respect hoping Mooney will survive, but have no idea really why they don’t, perhaps the market isn’t there? Cablecraft etc that are price gouging I’m sure are PMA manufacturers. I’d suspect the same type of crap if Univair and Wag Aero got bought by crooks too as it seems that Hartzell was. That really surprised me knowing Joe Brown and Hartzell’s respect for their employees etc. I hope he just got hood winked and didn’t know what was going to happen. I don’t know how much we can blame it on the FAA to be honest, as a former manufacturer I got the belief that much of the FAA honestly wanted out of the little airplane game and in my opinion the relaxation of recent regulations seem to support that. I think it’s crooks, and I have no idea how to protect against that, but I feel sure that Government regulation isn’t the answer. I suspect that maybe the FAA has too many road blocks in place to become a PMA manufacturer and or that they are over regulating the existing ones to death. That’s where I hope that if Elon gets that job that he may do something about that as he has been battling the Federal Government at every step for both Space-X and Tesla

Not sure if this helps, but gives you an idea. Take the numbers with a grain of salt.

Absolutely agree, and do the training in your own plane! I bought my first ovation before I finished my ppl for the exact same reasons! I hired a private instructor to finish my ppl and went straight into my IR in my own plane. Best decision I ever made.

Buy the best M20 F that fits your budget, something ready to fly, not a project. I did not regret that approach. I flew VFR for the first 3 years, flying to destinations 2-3 hours away. After a couple of times and being lucky enough to only scare the crap out of myself, I committed to the instrument rating. IFR flying demands discipline and flying by the numbers, much like the Mooney, and I highly recommend getting your instrument rating in the Mooney rather than the 172. I did not regret that. Congratulations on your PPL !!!

Thanks to everyone for your responses. I 100% plan on becoming instrument rated but I want to take a little time to enjoy my time as a pilot outside of the training environment. I started my training in 2005 while in college, racked up about 50 hours in a 172 and finished with about 50 hours in a pa-28. I currently live in New England and my mission will be local + regional flying, no more than 300 nm trips. Ideally I'd like to do my instrument training in the Mooney. I'm thinking of spending the next 6-12 months building time/experience in a 172 while I dive deeper into "everything Mooney" and get a sense of what 100-150k will get me. Thanks again, I really look forward to learning from and connecting with this community. With that said, if anyone is located within striking distance of Rhode Island and is interested in having me in the right seat of your plane, let me know:) -Chris

I bought the mini 7 and ram mount for mini 6 and it fits well. I am not happy with the placement on pilot yoke, obstructs gauges and my alt static if it were to be needed so I keep it on the co-pilot yoke.

Wow! Those are great numbers for a non intercooled, fixed wastegate TSIO360GB. I seem to be temp limited on my TIT (1650) and can't get above 57% hp running LOP and I have a intercooled, Merlyn, TSIO360LB. I don't spend much time up in the FL's and rarely run ROP (unless I am in a real hurry to get somewhere then I'm running 80% at 18-19 gph) so I can't compare what you are seeing to what I am seeing but TIT seems to be my significant limiting factor

I don’t know where it’s being taught, but everyone I fly with has there hand on the gear or flaps handle watching the A/S indicator and the instant they get to usually flap speed down they come. Mooney is a little unusual in that gear speed is higher. Many if not most of the guy I fly with and it’s not real frequent are older more experienced Airline drivers and Net Jets etc. but even the ones that aren’t hit the flaps or gear at max allowable airspeed. I think it’s common, as in flying WFO to get to breakfast that’s 15 min flight time away as well as climbing at Vy to get to 3,000 ft AGL to get there. I’ve always thought that of course people teach what they have been taught, and that very few CFI’s have all that much aircraft ownership tine and of course teach in fleet aircraft and the rental car phenomenon kicks in, as in “who cares, it’s a rental” I would suspect that the older CFI’s who aren’t in it just to build time until they can get that airline job and who have years of ownership experience are likely different. My experience was a part 141 school where of course your instructor was a student last semester, well maybe two semesters ago, but their night job was waiting tables, they were of course working for that airline job like everyone else in the school, I was an outlier being Military in search of a degree, hence the 141 school as it gave a degree. But where I know live the sky is full of similar schools the biggest likely Embry Riddle but there are many others, all teaching for that airline job.

"Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool."

that was quick...No longer available...

Maybe you should check the sonalert installed above your head for the gear warning to see if you have the correct part #. I’ve seen lots of Mooney’s with the wrong part # installed probably because it’s not hard for an owner to replace one. more often they install a continuous tone rather than pulsating tone. Regardless you don’t know what you have till you check. I don’t know what model you have but you can have 2 or 3 sonalerts installed. One for stall (which is easy to eliminate) one for gear warning and often 1 for autopilot which is also easy to determine if so. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Best option might be to post a WTB here or on barnstormers. You might get lucky with a Canadian owner that is forced into mandatory overhauls on calendar time, and they may sell to you outright and put that money towards a new upgrade. You could then sell yours privately... As Lance mentioned someone is always looking for a used airworthy prop. This means you'll have money tied up in two props for a while, but ultimately might get you where you want to go for reasonable cost. Sent from my motorola edge plus 2023 using Tapatalk

@fsuflyer First, congratulations! That's great. Don't let the "what's next" distract you from appreciating and enjoying your new rating. In my experience, keeping currency and building practical experience and exercising aeronautical decision-making is huge. I agree with the recommendation to immediately start on your instrument rating. You don't have to flog yourself through it, but it will focus your flying and lead naturally to all sorts of benefits. Or just go get some burgers for now. From your handle (profile doesn't list location) I'm thinking you're in Florida. So for plane choices a normally-aspirated and non-FIKI plane is reasonable, so an F could be a wonderful choice (I think, I haven't researched the earlier models extensively... someone else will weigh in authoritatively ). There is a professional broker who's pretty helpful here @Parker_Woodruff, and lots of experience in this pathway. Within the last year or so there is a lot of good advice on early choices, instrument rating, etc. Quick thoughts for now... welcome to Mooneyspace! Take your time learning about all the cool options. From what I've seen, there are a lot of flight hours and lots of type experience on this board. D

So I looked at mine yesterday (good excuse to swap out the o-rings and lubricate). They are not adjustable in terms of clocking position, nor is it really possible to install the locking plate upside down. The orientation of the cleats is fixed when the caps are fabricated.

I'd start with a conversation with a couple of insurance brokers. A lot of underwriters will not carry high risk pilots - and the ones that do will demand a pretty high premium. Expect somewhere around $5K a year +/- until your total time goes up and your make & model get above 100. If you fly a lot, you could "take one for the team" for one year and then rates will come way down to something manageable. One item to ask your broker is if they can write you with Beacon on a 6 month plan. I believe Beacon is the only one doing this right now, but they prorate you on a year plan, but write a 6 month policy to let you get your complex & MM up north of 50ish hours. That can really shorten the initial insurance hit. Mooneys are pretty darn easy to fly & land and while they are complex, there's nothing particularly complex about flying them. Unlike most trainers, you just need to fly them by the numbers. They don't tolerate deviations from the POH like Cessna & Piper trainers do. I own my F outright. I'd be much better off financially to be in a small member group ownership, but I'm at a point where I want to fly when I want to fly (keeping up with kids & grandkids). A clean F offers a lot for the money. Speed, efficiency, and relatively low cost of ownership. There are LOTS of good brokers, but I have had great experience with Airspeed Insurance Agency, BWI, and Travers. Those are three great places to start.

A buyer looking to expand interest in the US market (like Navblue) would be great. A bunch of private equity vultures looking to maximize and extort profit for many of us locked into Jepp would suck royally. I have a box in my F that can only use Jepp - so I'd have to buck up or simply not use that functionality (which I use heavily). Private equity firms snatching up GA critical resources is going to be the nail in the GA coffin.

The often dreaded conversation upon arrival: Lineman: “Sir are your brakes off?” Me: “Yes. Is your staff familiar with the nose gear turning limitations of a Mooney?” Lineman: “Oh yeah, we know.” Me: “Good. I prefer this aircraft to not be towed, so if I need to park in a different spot, I’m more than happy to do so now.”

This is a Piper 3D window latch for $10: https://www.ebay.com/itm/256539656421?_skw=PIPER+STORM+WINDOW+LATCH&itmmeta=01JC4FGC5QW2PN4YRSJS42XYN8&hash=item3bbaf480e5:g:uvcAAOSwRtFmZw5B&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA0HoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKmsqxtx4vE1WCanEaFwS%2Fcti%2BjS9qTQnMOjq%2FDIkWHcFK06pAvqUmDI8MLdh9XBcu85Mul08cUC723W7XGnM3jwUN7dohvQHeoPIrcB%2BE2lcceFKoTAG6I%2BrJyLhdZldwvLGeK6mB%2BzCmzpkjMquthkNTiIDhuCn8plZnm%2F6u6Q0oQsEkgia6O179KzywOqE0koUT1KKXWBjJR%2FD7lcO5qQlbuMfyeJyLfgwaJizFSGoPuNzWctg4zsb4FxHgV6kq8%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR4DDwY_hZA Here's the 3D latch in thingiverse: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:6067127

In general I agree with your CYA argument; the favorite of ALL government agencies Thing is, their 'blanket STC' for G100UL proves they WILL issue 'blanket approvals' when it suits them.

Uh, you answered your own question with, "...looks like they do at times." Seriously, despite recent 'laws' it's pretty common knowledge that the FAA decides what rules mean even after the fact. Of course they can do something like this if they WANT TO. No way Congress is going to bother getting involved in 'reprimanding' them. And, who else has any authority over the FAA?

Coming from the west of Vegas for the NBAA convention. Version 1.0 Whelen LED lamp. Co-worker took the shot from the hotel of my landing light 35m away before I was vectored for the ILS to 1L at LAS. $90 event fee at Atlantic. Beats the 120 uber ride from Jean. 7h in the Mooney that trip! -Matt

Good morning… that sounds like a fun plan. As mentioned by Dan I do fly a lot in central and South America. My own a M20 now E (I swapped engines) so my flying is slower and lower… but nevertheless I do fly over water and some mountains. Some comments based on my experience: Mooneys are rare in South America. Mostly they fly pipers, Cessna and beech. So if you fly a Mooney you better know your plane in and out and be ready to get involved in maintenance. Having said that maintenance is overall very good. They have good labor and they know what they do. flying over water or jungle… with single engine… it makes me nervous. But then my Lycoming engine is very reliable… so I trust it. But still sometimes I would prefer to have two engines, Specially if I have to face 500 miles of open water… so… I fly a lycoming and it has been up to now bullet proof. If you know your plane well maintenance is not an issue as labor is good. Parts you can get them… they may be more expensive, but you can get them. I would just bring the basic stuff such as filters and spark plugs. oscar

IMG_1590.mp4 This video doesn’t seem to play on Tapatalk but it does play on the PC.

My A&P tried to buy a throttle cable from Beechcraft for a Sundowner and was quoted just shy of $10,000.