Help me decide!

[woodryan]

Looking to make my first airplane purchase and am strongly considering a m20. Are there any significant strengths or considerations that will help me decide which m20 model? Any comments are welcome!! Thanks

[OR75]

what kind of flying do you intend to do ?

 

Or another way to look at it is: why are you strongly considering an M20 ? 

[AmigOne]

Your budget might be the first one, the equipment and engine times that you prefer the second. To me cosmetics are always also important because they show the amount of tlc that the owner has put into the plane.

[Hank]

A quick Vintage Mooney reivew:

 

Short body, 180 hp, carbureted:  A [few left, wood wing]; B; C; D [all but 3 converted to C]

Short body, 200 hp, injected:  E

Medium body, 200 hp, injected:  F, J

Medium body, 180 hp, carbureted:  G

 

Then things start getting interesting with turbos, higher HP, even longer bodies, etc., etc. The most plentifully manufactured models were the C & J.

 

Electric gear and electric flaps became standard in 1969; both were optional before that [Johnson bar gear, hydraulic flaps]. Some people have strong preferences for one or the other.

 

Short body planes typically will fill up with "stuff" before hitting gross weight, unless you are loading adult humans, then you will need to have less than full fuel. Capacity is 52 gallons, which will run carbed models >5 hours.

 

Medium bodies typically have 64 gals of fuel, good for almost 6 hours; long-range tanks increase this. Long bodies can have up to 130 gallons depending on model, which can be >7 hours.

 

It boils down to:  what is your mission? approximate headcount, cargo required and distance [= fuel required]. Then find a solid airplane with good maintenance history, regularly flown, equipped the way you want it, with a useful load that will take what you need to where you want to go with minimal enroute fuel stops. My C has 969 lb. useful load; some F & J models will reach 1050; some later models with various upgrades will be barely over 800--it is all specific to each individual aircraft.

[woodryan]

Thanks! Appreciate the overview, Hank. That is really more what I am after. As for the purpose or priorities, 1) efficiency 2) cross country capable 3) able to haul maybe 600# of humans! Thanks again

[rbridges]

If it fits within your budget, then, buy a J model. B, C, E, F, and G models would all be excellent choices, as well, and are possibly even better values, but for your stated priorities the J rules supreme. Hank is absolutely right, though. Their useful loads vary from 800 to 1050 pounds. Be sure to choose wisely to insure that your particular example will meet your mission requirements.

Jim

 

I agree. IMO, J model is one of the best bangs for the buck.  Of course, it must suit your needs.  

[1964-M20E]

Define you mission:

 

Distance

Load

flight time desired

Places you want to fly i.e. imporved airstrips (paved or good turf) or unimporved aistrips (backcountry type stuff) or even water (well water rules the Mooney out).

 

I have been an aircraft owner for 3 years now and this past weekend was the first time I had 4 people in my plane, I have had 3 several times.  Most of the time it is just me and one other but having the extra two seats does come in handy.

 

By the way the first plane and the second plane I bought each was a Mooney because that fits my mission profile a this time.

[woodryan]

Please tell me, do all j's have the same useful load, and is a cruise speed of 170 kts realistic? Thanks

[woodryan]

What causes there to be a difference in useful load, and what would be a typical cruise speed along with what fuel burn? 

[PTK]

You'll find the earlier J's have the best useful load.

I flight plan mine at a very conservative 155 knots. Fuel burn lop 8.5 gph. That's translates to better than 5 hours plus reserves or about 900 miles!

[Hank]

Empty weight for most models increased over time as the planes got "fat."

Installed equipment also effects weight; some things weigh more than others. One 430 or two? Standby vacuum or not? DG or HSI? Is the ADF still there? Leather or cloth seats? The list goes on and on . . . .

Even the engine effects it. 180 hp is lighter than 200 hp. What exhaust does it have? Two magnetos or one dual magneto? 3-blade props weigh more, composite props weigh less. Regular starter or lightweight model? Alternator or generator? Etc.

[laytonl]

I have a 92 M20J MSE and a 78 M20J.  They have the same useful load (approx 1,025 lbs.  The '92 model cruises at 160 kts ROP while the '78 cruises at 158 kts ROP.  The "slow one" is for sale.  Lee

[rainman]

Woodryan you may want to go to the Mooneyland website and download the two e-books they have written by Richard "Zef" Zefro. One is a guide to purchasing you first plane, and the other is "those Mooney Airplanes" . I read them both prior to buying my 231, and realized that my mission called for flying over the mountains with two people most of the time....result ..turbo charged Mooney. Ray

[panther1400]

Woodryan you may want to go to the Mooneyland website and download the two e-books they have written by Richard "Zef" Zefro. One is a guide to purchasing you first plane, and the other is "those Mooney Airplanes" . I read them both prior to buying my 231, and realized that my mission called for flying over the mountains with two people most of the time....result ..turbo charged Mooney. Ray

I did the same and ended up with a 231 also, but a J or K are pretty efficient and reasonable priced to start with. 

[woodryan]

Hey guys, thanks a ton for your comments and any additional advice is certainly welcome!

 

Lee, are details for the "slower plane" listed somewhere? 

 

Thanks!

[NotarPilot]

I bought my first plane last year and although it was a little more money I went with a J. I couldn't be happier. It has been a very reliable little airplane and even had it up to 12,500 feet leaving ABQ on the final leg en route to the west coast when I brought her home. I have a 1978 so my useful load is nearly 1,000 lbs. I have had 4 adults in my plane without any problem, not at full fuel of course.

Later models have fold down or reclining seats which are another thing which add to your empty weight. Unless you plan to do a lot of flying over mountainous terrain at high altitude I would go with a normally aspirated model.

For what it's worth, I would skip the 1977 model as they have the older style engine controls. I prefer the vernier controls for controlling the prop and mixture.

[larryb]

You will find that operating costs over several years will be more expensive than the purchase price. My J may cost $15,000 per year for fuel/hanger/maint/insurance. Over 10 years that's $150,000. Many of those costs do not depend on the model. A J and C will cost the same to own. Keeping this in mind, an extra $10K or $20K spent on the purchase won't make a huge difference in the end.

 

Larry

[DaV8or]

Thanks! Appreciate the overview, Hank. That is really more what I am after. As for the purpose or priorities, 1) efficiency 2) cross country capable 3) able to haul maybe 600# of humans! Thanks again

 

1) They are all efficient. However, it can be argued the M20K is the most efficient because of the smaller engine and the ability to operate in the flight levels. If it is miles traveled/purchase price and operating cost, the M20C is the king. If it is miles traveled/operating cost, then probably either an M20J, or a heavily modified M20E.

 

2) They are all cross country machines. That is what they were made for.

 

3) They can all carry 600 lbs of humans. Although this perhaps suggests that you may be traveling with 2, or more passengers. In this case I would recommend the M20F and later because of the increased rear seat leg room.

 

It all comes down to how much you want, or can spend. Big budget, I'd go M20J, or K. Low Budget, I'd go M20F, or G given the passenger requirement.

[chrisk]

You will find that operating costs over several years will be more expensive than the purchase price. My J may cost $15,000 per year for fuel/hanger/maint/insurance. Over 10 years that's $150,000. Many of those costs do not depend on the model. A J and C will cost the same to own. Keeping this in mind, an extra $10K or $20K spent on the purchase won't make a huge difference in the end.

 

Larry

This is what I did when I bought my plane.  I looked at the capabilities of all the planes, the cost to acquire, and the fixed cost to operate.  For capability,  a J, K, F, or E worked for me.    When I looked at fixed costs to operate, it was clear the purchase price of the plane didn't matter within reason.  I'd claim it largely cost the same to own and operate a J (and maybe a K) as a G and the J or K give more performance. 

 

In the end I ended up with a K (231), but I also would have been happy with a F with modern avionics and an autopilot.

 

And I hope I don't offend anyone, but I'm curious why someone would buy a G.   Slower than a C, the same fuel capacity as a C, and priced not that much less than a F.  Maybe it made sense in the 70's?  Or maybe a great deal on a known plane?

[Hank]

I suspect a good deal on a good plane, plus more back seat space. I rarely take 4 people, but 3 isn't uncommon. The third would like more room, and so does right seat when getting in/out. My C can be tight, especially traveling with my wife and her take-alongs.

[DaV8or]

And I hope I don't offend anyone, but I'm curious why someone would buy a G.   Slower than a C, the same fuel capacity as a C, and priced not that much less than a F.  Maybe it made sense in the 70's?  Or maybe a great deal on a known plane?

 

No, the G never made sense and that is why they made and sold so few. They were all done with them before the '70s. Today people buy them because they want the backseat space and they find one in excellent condition and at a low price. They can be had cheaper than an Arrow, or Cardinal and probably still faster. In this day and age of rock bottom airplane prices where people are scraping fully functioning airplanes just for parts value, an M20G would be a tough sell indeed, but if the plane is nice enough, well equipped and priced right, someone will buy and enjoy.