Flew first Mooney today!

[benpilot]

I live in northern California the bay area near Palo Alto to be exact. I think a newer Mooney 201J/Bravo/Ovation would be more comfortable and better fit my needs. The Rocket is an extreme plane so I should expect it to feel that way. The owner even recommended me to consider other Mooney for same or less money because of this plus they burn less fuel. I will get some demo flights to determine which fits me best. For what a newer Cirrus SR22 costs, I can have two planes! One for business commute and one for family. Taking a friend and just me the Mooney wins. For family and people, a larger plane like a Saratoga or Bonanza A36 would be good. Plus when one is in the shop for the annual at least I will always have a plane available for commute to work. I plan to buy a home outside bay area and fly into work. Bay area homes are 10x more than outside bay area.

[wishboneash]

I live in northern California the bay area near Palo Alto to be exact. I think a newer Mooney 201J/Bravo/Ovation would be more comfortable and better fit my needs. The Rocket is an extreme plane so I should expect it to feel that way. The owner even recommended me to consider other Mooney for same or less money because of this plus they burn less fuel. I will get some demo flights to determine which fits me best. For what a newer Cirrus SR22 costs, I can have two planes! One for business commute and one for family. Taking a friend and just me the Mooney wins. For family and people, a larger plane like a Saratoga or Bonanza A36 would be good. Plus when one is in the shop for the annual at least I will always have a plane available for commute to work. I plan to buy a home outside bay area and fly into work. Bay area homes are 10x more than outside bay area.

 

I think you are very ambitious and sorry to say, naive! I live in the Bay area (fly out of KLVK) and wouldn't consider small single engine aircraft to be all weather planes for you to be able to commute in under all conditions. We have significant icing conditions in winter in Northern CA. You need to significantly up your skills and equipment before you can reliably do this. There are commercial pilots fly into KSFO, KSJC etc from the Sierra foothills, but then these guys are professional pilots flying into a major airport. Which airport will you fly into? KPAO? It doesn't have an ILS and not even a WAAS GPS approach. Your best bet is to fly into KSJC but then you are mixing it up with the commercial jets. If you are very flexible in your work timings, sure it might work. Good luck.

[benpilot]

@wishboneash, it can be done but not easy. I plan to do this once I have my instrument and commercial rating not tomorrow. For now, just get a hangar in bay area and condo. When I retire my goal is to do this. Agree you need advanced ratings and experience before commuting. I have a very flexible work schedule and work remote most of the time. I can drive into work if weather is bad. Right now looking at finding a hangar at KLVK and KSJC or wherever is cheaper than KPAO or KHWD.

[driller]

I think you are very ambitious and sorry to say, naive! I live in the Bay area (fly out of KLVK) and wouldn't consider small single engine aircraft to be all weather planes for you to be able to commute in under all conditions. We have significant icing conditions in winter in Northern CA. You need to significantly up your skills and equipment before you can reliably do this. There are commercial pilots fly into KSFO, KSJC etc from the Sierra foothills, but then these guys are professional pilots flying into a major airport. Which airport will you fly into? KPAO? It doesn't have an ILS and not even a WAAS GPS approach. Your best bet is to fly into KSJC but then you are mixing it up with the commercial jets. If you are very flexible in your work timings, sure it might work. Good luck.

 

 

I was based out of Livermore in the late 80's.  Did my initial training in Tracy and got my instrument and multi in Livermore.  I use to have the same thinking that I could commute from Klvk to Ukiah via private aircraft.  Boy was I mistaken.  Never happen regularly in the bay area without an instrument rating.  I also remember being on the hangar waiting list for 3 years before I got into one.  And that was in 1987. 

 

If I were you, I'd buy a 172 and fly the crap out of it and get your ratings.  If you have any trouble getting these or decide to give up you're not out the big bucks.  While your doing this you will have the time to truely investigate what the best fit will be in a more advanced aircraft.

 

curt

[benpilot]

 

Why not an older Mooney 201J or Piper Arrow? Same cost as Cessna 172 and more useful to get instrument/commercial ratings.

[driller]

 

 

Why not an older Mooney 201J or Piper Arrow? Same cost as Cessna 172 and more useful to get instrument/commercial ratings.

 

 

It definately seems like you've already made up your mind.  However, this is the list of planes I've owned over the years.  172, 172 cutlass, piper arrow 3, 72 310Q, 75 310R, 76 340A, 81 Mooney 231, and now a 97 252 Encore.  I've never owned a Beech, but in my opinion, the 172 is by far the best to do your training and the Mooney K model is the best I've ever flown.  The worst by far was the piper.  Not bashing piper, but it felt like a little boat and was very unresponsive.  I sold it after about 10 hours in it.

 

Take it for what it's worth.

 

curt

[benpilot]

I have not made up 100% yet. I like both Mooney and Bonanza for different reasons. I need to fly longer body Mooney like Bravo and Ovation before I decide. I'd be happy with either bird they are both well made awesome planes. If I get a killer deal on a sweet Mooney I'd take it same goes for Bonanza. I plan to join MAPA and ABS to learn more and fly both. Mooney has the stable airframe in turbulence and good fuel economy with speed and Bonanza is great for hauling more people and stuff. Kinda like Ferrari versus Mercedes. Please don't misundstand me if I have cash owning both would be pretty sweet and folks do own couple different planes.

[OR75]

I have not made up 100% yet. I like both Mooney and Bonanza for different reasons. I need to fly longer body Mooney like Bravo and Ovation before I decide. I'd be happy with either bird they are both well made awesome planes. If I get a killer deal on a sweet Mooney I'd take it same goes for Bonanza. I plan to join MAPA and ABS to learn more and fly both. Mooney has the stable airframe in turbulence and good fuel economy with speed and Bonanza is great for hauling more people and stuff. Kinda like Ferrari versus Mercedes. Please don't misundstand me if I have cash owning both would be pretty sweet and folks do own couple different planes.

 

what budget do you have in mind ?

purchase then recurring per year ?

[benpilot]

No single plane does everything best.

[rob]

I'm pretty sure that we have been complimentary of other airframes, including Beech and Piper, for their various missions. It's amazing that this guy hasn't figured out that there are folks active on both forums. Seems that he's talking out of both sides of his mouth.

So let me be very clear, skynewbie: no one here cares if you buy a Mooney. We aren't trying to talk you into or out of one over a Beech or anything else. As a matter of fact several have tried to talk you out of a Mooney. Add me to that list. Please don't buy a Mooney. Buy a Bonanza, or a Citation, or a Waco; I don't care. But please stay out of a Mooney. It doesn't fit your mission, you're not comfortable in one, and heck, you can't even fly a complex aircraft at this point. The perfect airplane for you at present for your local commute and training? I'd say a Skycatcher. Enjoy

[aviatoreb]

 Post subject: Re: Not ready for a Bonanza?

Posted: 27 May 2013, 18:11 

   

Joined: 01/20/13
Posts: 221
Post Likes: +1 
Aircraft: aspiring owner

Just don't tell Mooniacs that you like Bos better they might get offended

 

Ben, I love Beech, I love Cessna, and Mooney and so forth.  I have not met an airplane I do not love.  

 

Ben you have not offended a single sole here based on airplane discussions.  It is your two-faced behavior: Ben, some people are getting annoyed here because we have been speaking thoughtfully and sincerely to you and suggesting all sorts of airframes to you in an effort to help you fit your mission and interests.  In turn you are misrepresenting and downright fabricating the nature of discussion poorly on other forums. Likewise the nice Beech folks are suggesting sincerely too - no one here or there is fanatical and we are all pilots trying to look out for each other.  You are speaking out of both sides of your mouth and trying to pit two communities that are just two parts of one bigger (small) community (pilots of small airplanes) against each other.  That is frustrating to say the least.  Remember we are all hangar neighbors at the airport.

 

This is my last response to you - I am sure you will twist this and go on telling people I am upset at you for not liking a Mooney.

 

 

Post subject: Re: Mooney versus Bonanza

Posted: 26 May 2013, 16:35 

   

Joined: 01/20/13
Posts: 221
Post Likes: +1 
Aircraft: aspiring owner

Wow I upset the Mooniacs on this site and Mooneyspace lol.

 

I wasn't upset then, but I am now - I am upset you are trying to make an us versus them between two long standing forums of adults and aviators - we are all the same people and there is no opposite camps thing going on. This is why so many of us participate in many forums.  I am upset you are twisting our words, misrepresenting our sincere offerings of help to you and speaking two sides of your mouth.  This is hardly honest.  I am sure I am wasting my time and you will twist this too.

[aaronk25]

This guy is like the guy who goes around shopping for planes wasting everyone's time and in the end can't even get a loan....lol.

He isn't here to learn anything just stir up stuff. What a joker.

[robert7467]

Better him taking the heat than me. Thank you Skynewbie

[fantom]

Better him taking the heat than me. Thank you Skynewbie

And here I thought he, 'smiles and you had formed an 'I can't believe you said that' club.

[benpilot]

Of course easy to get upset and talk behind a keyboard but in real life another matter. Call me a joker all you want but whatever. I am done here.

[robert7467]

Skynewbie, don't take it personally. This is a message forum, and in message forums things can turn sideways real quick. I am normally the punching bag on here, but since you have been on here, they have redirected their attention towards you. If you look at the history of your threads, you will find that MOST people on here are real nice and offer sound advice, and then there are a FEW that are pricks. Dont let them bother you, because if you do, it will eat you up. Personally I dont care if you swing both ways (Mooney, Bonanza), as they are both good airplanes. Good luck to you in your search. I can promise you, most Mooney drivers are nice in person, and they share the same passion for aviation as you.

[benpilot]

Guys, I never take it personally and think we have a misunderstanding. I know folks here also own other planes like Bonanzas and are on those forums. My take away is that things were taken out of context the wrong way. I apologize if I offended anyone. Like I said, I like both planes for different reasons. For me to fly business places fast, a Mooney Bravo or Acclaim would be sweet! A second plane to haul gear and friends/family the perfect bird would be something like a Bonanza A36. Folks have been very helpful answering my questions here and for that, I really do appreciate your help and insight. Who knows, I might buy you lunch or a beer at the next MAPA conference! Might even be a proud Mooney owner as well. Having a Mooney and Bonanza would be quite a nice setup. I figure for what a used Cirrus costs, I can easily buy two older planes for both missions.

[rob]

Guys, I never take it personally and think we have a misunderstanding. I know folks here also own other planes like Bonanzas and are on those forums. My take away is that things were taken out of context the wrong way. I apologize if I offended anyone. Like I said, I like both planes for different reasons. For me to fly business places fast, a Mooney Bravo or Acclaim would be sweet! A second plane to haul gear and friends/family the perfect bird would be something like a Bonanza A36. Folks have been very helpful answering my questions here and for that, I really do appreciate your help and insight. Who knows, I might buy you lunch or a beer at the next MAPA conference! Might even be a proud Mooney owner as well. Having a Mooney and Bonanza would be quite a nice setup. I figure for what a used Cirrus costs, I can easily buy two older planes for both missions.

 

 

I'm sorry, but I can't fathom why you'd think that having a Mooney and a Bonanza would be sweet. In my opinion it wouldn't be sweet, it would be stupid. Skip the Mooney, buy the Bo. Be done with it. Or buy the used Cirrus you keep referring to, whatever floats your boat. The planes are too similar to make sense out of owning them both. They're both small, single engine piston, aircraft. Sure the Bo has more seats, and maybe you can fit more in it, so that's what you should get if you have the need for that. (But you did say you're single so I don't get why you need a six seat aircraft)  If you were talking about a Citabria or a Cub and a Bonanza/Mooney then I'd get it. I don't believe an Acclaim or Bravo is enough faster than an A36 to make any difference unless you are commuting several hundred miles? You're talking about owning a second aircraft and encumbering all the associated maintenance and hangaring costs just to save a few minutes on a 3 hour flight.... Is it any wonder people are treating you harshly? 

 

 

I don't mean to sound like a jerk (maybe) Skynewbie, but for now the best thing you can do is go get your PPL. When you've got that in hand, come back and talk about what you want to do with it. As it stands, it sure does seem like you're just bored and trying to stir the pot. You have a lot to learn. Go learn it.  

[FlyDave]

Of course easy to get upset and talk behind a keyboard but in real life another matter. Call me a joker all you want but whatever. I am done here.

Please say what you mean, mean what you say and DO WHAT YOU SAY!

All - as I've stated before, I believe this is one-in-the-same as Robert+4-numbers (neurosis incarnate). I put the other one on ignore and will now do the same for this "user".

Some people have nothing better to do in their life than attempt to attract attention to themselves by being childish and wasting of people's time. Do yourself a favor (who/what ever you are) find something in life that you like to do besides wasting other people's time. You will enjoy your life much, much more!

[benpilot]

mean what you say and DO WHAT YOU SAY!

 

 

 

 

Sure wilco. I found out why the Mooney Rocket I flew felt heavy in the elevator controls. Spoke with a nice experienced Mooney pilot today who is selling his Rocket for a screaming deal considering the pristine condition he told me the plane is in. Plane has to be trimmed correctly then the controls are not that bad. 

[BigTex]

Skynewbie - help me understand why you feel the controls are heavy and why you think that's a bad thing? For a cross country plane, I consider the controls almost perfect. Until you take something like a Decathlon or any other aircraft with light controls cross country, you'd die for something as stable as a Mooney. I did that many times flying to aerobatic competitions and fought it the entire time. If you find the controls too heavy,maybe you have a different mission profile Than what the plane is intended for. I suspect you've not got enough experience to know what to look for for a given mission profile. So tell us on this forum why you find the controls so objectionable? Inquiring minds want to know!

[robert7467]

Fly Dave, I hate to bust your bubble, but me and skynewbie are not the same. Look up our ip's!

[fantom]

Plane has to be trimmed correctly then the controls are not that bad.

Freaking amazing...

[robert7467]

Skynewbie, I have gone to bat for you, and after finding out you don't even have a PPL, I feel violated. I think Microsoft Flight Simulator would suit your mission. The controls are really light, and you can pick from any plane depending how you feel that day.

[thinwing]

I am thinking we have been wasting all this effort on a 12 year old stealing time on his fathers computer...