mikesalman Posted March 13, 2013 Report Posted March 13, 2013 I was helping my friend shop for his first airplane and he decided on a Mooney.Well we found one locally a 1968 M20F just like mine but I was a little curious about it's history with 2645 TT on the airframe and 1575 on the engine. I checked for damage history and found none. I have not gone over the log books or done a pre-buy inspection because I wanted to get some input from anyone that may know some history on this aircraft. Any input would be highly appreciated. 1 Quote
Rwsavory Posted March 13, 2013 Report Posted March 13, 2013 Google and Bing found a couple interesting things: Spent some time in Florida: N3555N Mooney M20F 680095 67 WILLIS BOBBY O STAUGUSTINE FL 19990615 19870903 - Possible salvage = possible damage history: aviationls.com/.../content/Salvage_Repository/N3555N_Mooney_M20F.aspx Claim Number: 1201000377 Aircraft N Number: N3555N. Bid closing and award date: 09/01/13 11:00. INSPECTION IS HIGHLY RECOMMENDED AS WE DO NOT … As I'm sure you know, an inspection of logs and records and a pre-buy is a must. These will most likely reveal all that your friend needs to know to make an informed decision. A title search will also show all records filed with the FAA, including 337's. Good luck! Quote
triple8s Posted March 13, 2013 Report Posted March 13, 2013 I may be different than most people, but damage history isnt the issue to me, when you are looking at 40 or 50 year old machines if it doesnt have some kind of damage history it has been a setter and that isnt a good thing. IMHO what would concern me is improper repair methods not made in accordance to AC 43.13-1B or damage/repairs NOT documented. As they say here at work, " DOCUMENT DOCUMENT DOCUMENT" A well documented repair out in the open doesnt concern me, the hidden things are the nightmares. Mice damage, hidden tubing rust, spar corrosion, propstrike with no PSI, flood history, equipment with no 337 filled, repairs made using improper parts or materials, these are things I worry about when I am considering an aquisition. Something else that is amusing is how I hear "oh this guy" or "this company is hones"t or "this guy" or "this company is crooked", well its no different than a used car market and if you dont do you homework, do lots of digging and put the pieces together you are very likely to get screwed thats just the way it is. Take NOTHING for granted and take nobodys word for anything. If its a great price there is a trade off somewhere, maybe a major accident, maybe bad logs or something but it is there, otherwise it would have a premium price. You have to be certified to work on aircraft and fly them but you dont have to be certified to get educated so if you are in the market for a particular model/make learn about them and educate yourself, then you have the knowledge to make your own decisions. Take your mechanic sure but put YOUR eyes on it KNOW what you are looking at. That's how I feel about it. 3 1 Quote
carusoam Posted March 13, 2013 Report Posted March 13, 2013 Did you say salvage and it's in TN? Hmmmmmm. What else should you look for? -a- 2 1 Quote
Hank Posted March 13, 2013 Report Posted March 13, 2013 Just be aware that 'accidents' and 'incidents' are defined differently, recorded differently and filed in different locations. Quote
DrBill Posted March 14, 2013 Report Posted March 14, 2013 There is a guy in E TN (near Johnson City I'm told) that puts together planes from pieces. My old A&P said he was rather lax on procedures. BILL Quote
JPC0706 Posted March 19, 2013 Report Posted March 19, 2013 Hello All: It turns out that I was the high bidder on Ebay and as of this minute, I'll be buying this airplane. I'm very excited about it. However after doing more digging as I approach the point in time where I actually pay for the craft, I found this site. I'm glad to have found this site, however, I'm becoming alarmed by what Rwsavory wrote. I can't find any mention of damage or incidents anywhere, yet there is something in Rwsavory's post. I checked the link and it's now dead. I'm going to perform a title search to see what is revealed. I haven't seen any mention of Florida in it's history so far but I want to know where that information came from. Is it possible for the airplane to have some legitimate history that is not revealed in the title search yet? Example, is it possible that a title search will not reveal anything about an auction or salvage just because the paperwork hasn't been filed timely and is in queue to be filed? Any thoughts are greatly appreciated. Thanks! Quote
Marauder Posted March 19, 2013 Report Posted March 19, 2013 Hello All: It turns out that I was the high bidder on Ebay and as of this minute, I'll be buying this airplane. I'm very excited about it. However after doing more digging as I approach the point in time where I actually pay for the craft, I found this site. I'm glad to have found this site, however, I'm becoming alarmed by what Rwsavory wrote. I can't find any mention of damage or incidents anywhere, yet there is something in Rwsavory's post. I checked the link and it's now dead. I'm going to perform a title search to see what is revealed. I haven't seen any mention of Florida in it's history so far but I want to know where that information came from. Is it possible for the airplane to have some legitimate history that is not revealed in the title search yet? Example, is it possible that a title search will not reveal anything about an auction or salvage just because the paperwork hasn't been filed timely and is in queue to be filed? Any thoughts are greatly appreciated. Thanks! Here is the current FAA information for this N number: http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=3555N The plane is a 1967 according to the FAA entry, not a 68 (it does look like it has a serial number for a 68 and it was built late in the year 1967). It does not appear to have an active registration (warning flag -- why isn't it? Brokers don't need to register it)? The name on the FAA registration can be found on the web: http://www.rraircraft.com/1968-mooney-m20f-sale-pending.html (Is this the company you are buying it from?). The company is carrying a Delaware incorporation but appears to be based in Memphis (not unusual). Before I spent a penny on any plane, I would have the seller agree to a pre-buy. That should include an inspection of the logs, having a mechanic that you choose look the plane over and a flight test to verify the functionality of the plane. The people selling may be legitimate honest brokers, but until I knew more about them and their plane, I would proceed cautiously. The good news is that I didn't find anything linked to this N number in the NTSB accident site. The bad news is that there are three planes, all Mooneys that carry the same serial number. They are different models. One was exported, one was destroyed and had a Florida address linked to it (it was a G model) and the one you are looking at. I don't know the Mooney serial number structure for the Mooneys built in the 60s, I'm sure someone here can help to you if the same serial number can be on a F and G model at the same time. The G model is the one that was destroyed. No accident report may mean destroyed a another way other than by an accident (hurricane?). Don't let the emotions get the better of you... validate before you sign over your money... Quote
Marauder Posted March 19, 2013 Report Posted March 19, 2013 I did a little more digging. FlightAware lists previous owners. Here is the link: http://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N3555N Anyone know Arnold Talley, Bill Higgins or Bill Hawkins? They show to be previous owners or brokers. Being the inquisitive type I am, if it were me, I wouldn't have any reservations calling any of the previous owners. BTW - the mode S code is the same here as on the FAA site. Good chance these fine gentlemen are linked somehow to this plane. Good luck! 1 Quote
Rwsavory Posted March 19, 2013 Report Posted March 19, 2013 Hello All: It turns out that I was the high bidder on Ebay and as of this minute, I'll be buying this airplane. I'm very excited about it. However after doing more digging as I approach the point in time where I actually pay for the craft, I found this site. I'm glad to have found this site, however, I'm becoming alarmed by what Rwsavory wrote. I can't find any mention of damage or incidents anywhere, yet there is something in Rwsavory's post. I checked the link and it's now dead. I'm going to perform a title search to see what is revealed. I haven't seen any mention of Florida in it's history so far but I want to know where that information came from. Is it possible for the airplane to have some legitimate history that is not revealed in the title search yet? Example, is it possible that a title search will not reveal anything about an auction or salvage just because the paperwork hasn't been filed timely and is in queue to be filed? Any thoughts are greatly appreciated. Thanks! I just ran a Google and Bing search using the N number. It looks like a nice airplane, and I hope it works out for you. Where will you be basing it? Quote
N601RX Posted March 19, 2013 Report Posted March 19, 2013 Hello All: It turns out that I was the high bidder on Ebay and as of this minute, I'll be buying this airplane. I'm very excited about it. However after doing more digging as I approach the point in time where I actually pay for the craft, I found this site. I'm glad to have found this site, however, I'm becoming alarmed by what Rwsavory wrote. I can't find any mention of damage or incidents anywhere, yet there is something in Rwsavory's post. I checked the link and it's now dead. I'm going to perform a title search to see what is revealed. I haven't seen any mention of Florida in it's history so far but I want to know where that information came from. Is it possible for the airplane to have some legitimate history that is not revealed in the title search yet? Example, is it possible that a title search will not reveal anything about an auction or salvage just because the paperwork hasn't been filed timely and is in queue to be filed? Any thoughts are greatly appreciated. Thanks! I noticed the link is dead also. If there isn't anything in the logs, its very unlikely a title search will turn up anything either. Technically there isn't a title search for a aircraft as they don't have a title, however you can order a CD from the Faa that has all the records for the plane on it. It will take about a week to get it, But unless the damage repair required filing a 337 nothing will show up here either. Unfortunately there are a small number of people who buys salvage planes from insurance companies and puts them back together as cheaply as possible without making any mention of it in the aircraft logs. I would suggest contacting the salvage company in the dead link as well as the previous owners. Quote
hmasing Posted February 24, 2019 Report Posted February 24, 2019 Turns out I bought this plane last summer (July, 2018). It's in decent shape overall. Engine was overhauled about 250 hours before I bought it, and some avionics updates. Had a GNS530W and a G5. Some minor hail damage, and dings/pings you'd expect from a 51 year old bird. Aside from prior owner not doing a great job with avionics upgrades and some maintenance, it's a solid flyer once I got the many, many, many squawks worked out. Knocking out the service bulletins that weren't done (none mandatory), putting in new insulation, new fuel senders, new ELT, etc, and she'll give me a good many decades. She's in for a panel overhaul as I type this, and will be getting new skin to fix the hail damage, and a paint job in the next couple of years. 6 Quote
BobW Posted May 29, 2020 Report Posted May 29, 2020 My father owned N3555N in the mid 80's till mid 90's. He bought the plane out of Sanford Fl. & kept it mostly in St.Augustine. Many good memories! 3 Quote
bonal Posted May 29, 2020 Report Posted May 29, 2020 (edited) Anthony must have finally gone to sleep he normally welcomes new posters. So Welcome to Mooney Space. Do you fly a Mooney Bob what part of Gods green earth do you reside Edited May 29, 2020 by bonal 3 1 Quote
chriscalandro Posted May 29, 2020 Report Posted May 29, 2020 3 hours ago, bonal said: Anthony must have finally gone to sleep he normally welcomes new posters. So Welcome to Mooney Space. Do you fly a Mooney Bob what part of Gods green earth do you reside I just figured he had an auto response set up. Quote
chriscalandro Posted May 29, 2020 Report Posted May 29, 2020 On 3/13/2013 at 9:39 AM, Rwsavory said: Spent some time in Florida: N3555N Mooney M20F 680095 67 WILLIS BOBBY O STAUGUSTINE FL 19990615 19870903 - Not this BS argument again........ Quote
Rwsavory Posted May 29, 2020 Report Posted May 29, 2020 11 minutes ago, chriscalandro said: Not this BS argument again........ I’m not sure what you think I was arguing… Seven years ago… LOL. Anyway the rest of my post dealt with a possible salvage history and recommendation for pre-buy. I actually knew the original poster, and he was very happy with his plane. Have a great day! Quote
chriscalandro Posted May 29, 2020 Report Posted May 29, 2020 (edited) Just now, Rwsavory said: I’m not sure what you think I was arguing… Seven years ago… LOL. Anyway the rest of my post dealt with a possible salvage history and recommendation for pre-buy. I actually knew the poster, and he was very happy with his plane. Have a great day! I didn’t see the date. 0/2 for today Edited May 29, 2020 by chriscalandro 1 Quote
hmasing Posted May 30, 2020 Report Posted May 30, 2020 Well, fwiw, *I* own Mooney N3555N now, and after fixing a bunch of squawks, and a very thorough annual, she's a great plane. @BobW if your dad is still around, please let him know his bird is getting the love an attention she deserves after a few years of neglect. The attached photo is from last night, I parked at KFTT (Fulton, MO) over night, and spotted a '67 M20F on the ramp. I live in Michigan, and she's hangared at KARB (Ann Arbor). I'm flying her about 350 hours a year. 5 Quote
carusoam Posted June 1, 2020 Report Posted June 1, 2020 Seeing if @BobW has seen the pics and details of his dad’s old bird... He was logged in earlier... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
hmasing Posted June 3, 2022 Report Posted June 3, 2022 @BobW the restoration is continuing. New panel, new paint, onerhauled prop, new windows, new led lights, no vacuum system. She’s almost new! 2 Quote
ArtVandelay Posted June 3, 2022 Report Posted June 3, 2022 Surprised you didn’t change tail number, could have gotten N68HM for example. Quote
EricJ Posted June 3, 2022 Report Posted June 3, 2022 4 hours ago, hmasing said: @BobW the restoration is continuing. New panel, new paint, onerhauled prop, new windows, new led lights, no vacuum system. She’s almost new! Very nice! At some point an easy upgrade would be popping that old GPS out and popping an IFD 540 in there. Quote
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